# bin Laden is dead? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 2, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436 "2011-05-02T02:46:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/321 "2011-05-05T16:31:29Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Obama was calling the shots… > BTW, I still think he’s a pussy for backing down to the Republicans all the time, but he got THIS one right. Did you have a comment to make, or do you want to make a speech? 🙂 He did better than Carter if Carter did interfere with the Iran rescue, but he could very well have just taken advice from his military guys. Who knows? I don’t believe everything he says. I’d be more inclined to buy your side if Obama had military experience. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/322 "2011-05-05T17:16:27Z")
I’m pleased bin Laden is dead. I’m not about to shout “GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL!” about it or treat it like something other than what it was–a bad death after a bad life that led to a lot of suffering and pain for a lot of people. The suffering and pain go on. Killing him doesn’t take those things away, and killing him does lessen my humanity a little bit. Not a lot, but some. I’m relieved that he’s dead, but I’m not proud of it. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/323 "2011-05-05T17:36:56Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Did you have a comment to make, or do you want to make a speech? 🙂 > > He did better than Carter if Carter did interfere with the Iran rescue, but he could very well have just taken advice from his military guys. Who knows? I don’t believe everything he says. > I’d be more inclined to buy your side if Obama had military experience. How much military training does it require to authorize a raid? He said yes, go through with the operation we planned. It actually was a gutty call. If it failed people like you might have actually had a reason to hammer him. And OBL would have been long ggone while the Pakistan government would have hammered Obama. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/324 "2011-05-05T17:46:28Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > If it failed people like you And what kind of people am I? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/325 "2011-05-05T18:13:34Z")
You know, Lincoln gets way too much fucking credit for winning the Civil War. Was he out there burning Georgia, or charging rebel lines, or meeting with Robert E Lee at Appamattox? He won, but he should have listened to his military advisers more. He didn’t do what MacClellan told him to, he didn’t listen to Burnside, or Hooker, or Meade - he kept questioning all of them! Stupid Abe Lincoln. It was mostly Buchanan who set the stage for Lincoln’s “accomplishments” anyway. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/326 "2011-05-05T19:10:33Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > And what kind of people am I? 🙂 The kind that somehow believes the military is more trustworthy than politicians. How often has the military lied to us? How political and financially greedy are they? How much does the media suck up to them while they consume more and more of the budget? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/327 "2011-05-05T19:34:24Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] The kind that somehow believes the military is more trustworthy than politicians. [/QUOTE] It’s not widely known, and I hesitate to let the cat out of the bag here, but did you know that the military in the US is actually under civilian control and oversight?? I know, I know…it’s something that no one every tells us and they keep highly secret and all! But it’s true! > [@](#): > > How often has the military lied to us? I don’t know…how often? Do you have a rough guestimate? -XT ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/328 "2011-05-05T19:35:17Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The kind that somehow believes the military is more trustworthy than politicians. Thanks for pointing that out. I thought I was taking issue with the claim that Obama is some military genius that planned the operation for the most part by himself. Now I know. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/329 "2011-05-05T19:44:49Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > It’s not widely known, and I hesitate to let the cat out of the bag here, but did you know that the military in the US is actually under civilian control and oversight?? I know, I know…it’s something that no one every tells us and they keep highly secret and all! But it’s true! > > I don’t know…how often? Do you have a rough guestimate? > > -XT Are you dumb enough to believe that is a fact? Our politicians have a terrible problem cutting expensive programs that nobody wants . You learned everything you know by the first year of college, then spent the rest of your like defending the simple little truths you have accepted. Did you ever hear of Jackson, Grant, Eisenhower,? Sure the civilians are in control. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/330 "2011-05-05T19:49:04Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Thanks for pointing that out. I thought I was taking issue with the claim that Obama is some military genius that planned the operation for the most part by himself. > > Now I know. 🙂 would you like some extra straw for your man? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/331 "2011-05-05T20:38:35Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > It’s not widely known, and I hesitate to let the cat out of the bag here, but did you know that the military in the US is actually under civilian control and oversight?? I know, I know…it’s something that no one every tells us and they keep highly secret and all! But it’s true! > > I don’t know…how often? Do you have a rough guestimate? > > -XT > **[List of presidents of the United States by military rank](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Presidents_by_military_rank)** > > The United States Constitution names the president of the United States the commander-in-chief of the United States Armed Forces. Many presidents, however, also served in the military before taking office. All but 13 of the 45\[a\] persons to become president have served. > Of the 32 presidents with military service, 31 have been commissioned officers, of whom five began their careers as regular officers (Jimmy Carter transferred to the Navy Reserve after five years in the Navy). There have been 1... We were all taught crap like that when we were young, but for most adults, when the evidence proves otherwise, we abandon our childhood beliefs and replace them with one that is responsive to the evidence. Sure XT just like the "law of supply and demand’. You cling to these immature concepts and Peter Pan your way through life. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/332 "2011-05-05T20:40:41Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I’m pleased bin Laden is dead. I’m not about to shout “GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL!” about it or treat it like something other than what it was–a bad death after a bad life that led to a lot of suffering and pain for a lot of people. The suffering and pain go on. Killing him doesn’t take those things away, and killing him does lessen my humanity a little bit. Not a lot, but some. > > I’m relieved that he’s dead, but I’m not proud of it. Ok then I will, “GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOal!!!” Killing him does not take away the suffereing and pain from the past or present but it does prevent him causing more pain and suffering in the future. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/333 "2011-05-05T21:10:06Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > would you like some extra straw for your man? I think you’re the one doing [that](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man), fella. 🙂 Anyway, my Daddy taught me to never try and teach a pig to sing. “You waste your time, and annoy the pig” my Old Man said. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/334 "2011-05-05T22:51:46Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Did you have a comment to make, or do you want to make a speech? 🙂 > > He did better than Carter if Carter did interfere with the Iran rescue, but he could very well have just taken advice from his military guys. Who knows? I don’t believe everything he says. > I’d be more inclined to buy your side if Obama had military experience. I would not trust a president with military experience. The last time we did that he wore a flight suit he didn’t earn, to fly a plane he was not qualified to fly, to make a landing he was not qualified to do, to proclaim “MISSION ACCOMPLISHED” for a job he didn’t finish. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/335 "2011-05-05T23:07:07Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > I would not trust a president with military experience. The last time we did that he wore a flight suit he didn’t earn, to fly a plane he was not qualified to fly, to make a landing he was not qualified to do, to proclaim “MISSION ACCOMPLISHED” for a job he didn’t finish. Does the Air National Guard count as military experience? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/336 "2011-05-06T00:05:40Z")
Only if you don’t actually show up. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/337 "2011-05-06T01:31:34Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > The last time we did that he wore a flight suit he didn’t earn, to fly a plane he was not qualified to fly, to make a landing he was not qualified to do, to proclaim “MISSION ACCOMPLISHED” for a job he didn’t finish. Come to think of it, he only did the first and the last. He isn’t _that_ stupid. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/338 "2011-05-06T02:14:47Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Did you have a comment to make, or do you want to make a speech? 🙂 > > He did better than Carter if Carter did interfere with the Iran rescue, but he could very well have just taken advice from his military guys. Who knows? I don’t believe everything he says. > I’d be more inclined to buy your side if Obama had military experience. Yeah, I think you quoted the relevant part. Obama was calling the shots and he deserves more credit than: “He’s just the guy who happened to be in office when this all went down” I’m going by stuff I have seen on the news and this wiki: > **[Killing of Osama bin Laden](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Osama_bin_Laden#Planning)** > > On May 2,\[a\] 2011, the United States conducted Operation Neptune Spear, in which SEAL Team Six shot and killed Osama bin Laden at his "Waziristan Haveli" in Abbottabad, Pakistan. Bin Laden, who founded al-Qaeda and orchestrated the September 11 attacks, had been the subject of a United States military manhunt since the beginning of the war in Afghanistan, but escaped to Pakistan—allegedly with Pakistani support—during or after the Battle of Tora Bora in December 2001. The mission was part of ... I also pointed out that if he was looking for partisan advantage, he COULD have taken Osama down last fall if he were wiling to risk a couple of dead seals. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/339 "2011-05-06T02:19:00Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > It’s not widely known, and I hesitate to let the cat out of the bag here, but did you know that the military in the US is actually under civilian control and oversight?? I know, I know…it’s something that no one every tells us and they keep highly secret and all! But it’s true! I think his point is that we have this warrior worship culture that has gone into hyperdrive in the last ten years. > [@](#): > > I don’t know…how often? Do you have a rough guestimate? > > -XT Most military lies can be linked to politicians ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436/340 "2011-05-06T02:20:02Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Thanks for pointing that out. I thought I was taking issue with the claim that Obama is some military genius that planned the operation for the most part by himself. > > Now I know. 🙂 Who claimed that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-is-dead/580436.md?page=18)