# 'Bin Laden' offers Europe truce **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 15, 2004, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-offers-europe-truce/240149 "2004-04-15T10:49:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-offers-europe-truce/240149/21 "2004-04-15T14:18:56Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Happy news at last. Both Britan and Italy describe the “offer” as absurd. Go fuck a camel Osama! Didn’t really expect much different did you? ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-offers-europe-truce/240149/22 "2004-04-15T14:30:20Z")
It is probably an attempt to split Europe and America, but it is also a sign of his weakness, IMHO. Considering how his intent before was killing _everyone_ who didn’t agree with him, his offering of a truce to infidel scum seems to show that he is feeling the pressure. Now, of course, we’ve gotta go get him. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-offers-europe-truce/240149/23 "2004-04-15T14:38:59Z")
OBL is not in charge of the enemy. Nobody is in command. Therefore negotiations are useless. They are Nihilists. Kill them. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-offers-europe-truce/240149/24 "2004-04-15T14:47:21Z")
[No negotiation’ with Bin Laden](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3627943.stm) Surprise surprise. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-offers-europe-truce/240149/25 "2004-04-15T15:12:46Z")
**SM:** _If he had some halfway reasonable grievance or made a demand with some glimmer of justification visible, there might be some basis for negotiating a ceasefire._ Except, as others have noted, it’s very doubtful that he’s even **able** to institute or enforce a ceasefire, even if he really wants one, which is also very doubtful. (How sure are we that this “offer” is credibly sourced to ObL, anyway?) Intelligence reports have indicated that the al-Qaeda network has become much more “acephalous” since 9/11 and is now operating as a fairly loose network of more-or-less connected groups. IMHO trying to treat with bin Laden wouldn’t do diddly in terms of actually neutralizing terrorist cells in Europe. And I agree with most of the posts here that he doesn’t really want any truce anyway. However, I think the people he’s actually hoping to con with this suggestion are not Europeans, but Americans. A lot of American right-wingers already buy into the fantasy that Europeans are cowardly and soft on terror, and that only the aggressive might of the American lone eagle stands between us and destruction, etc. etc. etc. Any suggestion that European countries might have a chance to cut a deal with al-Qaeda for their own safety will send many of these people into a gibbering hissy fit, and reinforce their fears that we’re alone and beleaguered and we’ve got to respond savagely in order to to survive. If this succeeds in driving further wedges between the US and the rest of the world, and/or in increasing the aggressiveness of our rhetoric or our military operations, more Muslims worldwide will be alarmed and resentful about us, which IMO is just what bin Laden would like to see. However, if instead we all look down our collective noses and calmly advise bin Laden to pursue **Rune** ’s suggested camel-related program activities, this trick will pretty much fall flat. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-offers-europe-truce/240149/26 "2004-04-15T17:02:33Z")
> [@](#): > > It is probably an attempt to split Europe and America, Bingo! And that’s good strategy on his part. After September 11, Bush should have pursued such a strategy in regards to militant Islam and the Arab world. Instead, Bush is doing his best to prove to the Arab world that militant Islam’s take on the West is the correct one. Of course Osama’s move will not be successful, but it was worth a shot. ---
**Author:** ![CTB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9a140/32.png) [@CTB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CTB)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-offers-europe-truce/240149/27 "2004-04-15T17:23:50Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > And I agree with most of the posts here that he doesn’t really want any truce anyway. However, I think the people he’s actually hoping to con with this suggestion are not Europeans, but Americans. > > A lot of American right-wingers already buy into the fantasy that Europeans are cowardly and soft on terror, and that only the aggressive might of the American lone eagle stands between us and destruction, etc. etc. etc. Any suggestion that European countries might have a chance to cut a deal with al-Qaeda for their own safety will send many of these people into a gibbering hissy fit, and reinforce their fears that we’re alone and beleaguered and we’ve got to respond savagely in order to to survive. > > If this succeeds in driving further wedges between the US and the rest of the world, and/or in increasing the aggressiveness of our rhetoric or our military operations, more Muslims worldwide will be alarmed and resentful about us, which IMO is just what bin Laden would like to see. Bingo! Nothing in UbL’s history point to any desire to ease tensions between the West and Islam. He is looking for a worldwide conflagration (I’ll find cites if anyone disagrees with this understanding). So it would seem reasonable to assume that this offer is an attempt to forward with that goal. He knows that other countries besides Spain are considering withdrawing their troops, and with this statement, he can claim credit for “forcing” them to to his followers. Just as **Rune** has correctly asserted (forgive me if my paraphrase misrepresents your intent), it does not really matter whether or not the bombings had any effect upon the votes of the Spaniards, as UBL (and unfortunately many in the west) can claim a cause/effect relationship. It may be (and likely is) comeplete bullshit, but such myths are effective in increasing his status worldwide and among his followers. So, if in two months, if Poland pulls its troops, UBL can claim victory, even though he likely had ntohing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![CTB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9a140/32.png) [@CTB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CTB)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-offers-europe-truce/240149/28 "2004-04-15T17:25:16Z")
Wow. Dueling bingos. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2004, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-offers-europe-truce/240149/29 "2004-04-15T17:41:00Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > It is probably an attempt to split Europe and America, but it is also a sign of his weakness, IMHO. Maybe he figures it was a no-loss offer. If any of the European countries agrees, Bush’s support gets weakened. If no one takes him up on the offer, the status quo doesn’t change. ---
**Author:** ![Milum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@Milum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milum)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-offers-europe-truce/240149/30 "2004-04-16T00:32:32Z")
**Paul in Saudi** ; Jeddah, Saudi Arabia . > [@](#): > > OBL is not in charge of the enemy. Nobody is in command. Therefore negotiations are useless. They are Nihilists. Kill them. THESE ARE NOT PEOPLE WITH A JUST CAUSE, THEY ARE MURDERERS, KILLERS OF INNOCENTS…STOP YOUR EQUIVOCATING DEBATE…KILL THEM. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-offers-europe-truce/240149/31 "2004-04-16T00:48:26Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > In that case, almost any act might encourage ObL. Such as withdrawing troops from Saudi Arabia. O’ course. I’m not saying that anyone should change their actions/votes because of what he thinks; just that he’s gonna think what he wants and take courage from what he wants. There’s nothing we can do about it, but it’s worth being aware of. > [@Kimstu](#): > > Except, as others have noted, it’s very doubtful that he’s even able to institute or enforce a ceasefire, even if he really wants one, … Which is exactly why he’s so dangerous; he is able to start chain reactions that would be beyond his – anyone’s – control to stop. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-offers-europe-truce/240149/32 "2004-04-16T00:56:29Z")
Well, the good news is that the reviews are in from Germany, France, Italy, Spain, the U.K., and many other countries, and ALL of them told Osama to go to hell. I guess we’ll have to find ‘peace in our time’ the old fashioned way - by killing the bastards who are disrupting it. ---
**Author:** ![Jojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecd19e/32.png) [@Jojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jojo)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-offers-europe-truce/240149/33 "2004-04-16T01:13:29Z")
Osama said: > [@](#): > > The door of reconciliation is open for three months of the date of announcing this statement. Does this mean that there will be no terrorist attacks for the next three months? So let’s see it’s April now…May, June, July. So three months takes us to the middle of July. They seem to like the 11th for some reason so can we assume that the next terrorist attack will take place on August 11th? The handover of sovereignty in Iraq occurs on 30th June. Assuming that things start to calm down over there and the handover happens as planned, I would think that we would start to see troop reductions anyway after 30th June. The US will still have bases there but many of the minor players from European countries will probably be withdrawing their troops anyway as soon as they possibly can. The whole idea is to let the Iraqi army take over control eventually. So by August 11th (assuming all is quiet in Iraq) most countries will probably be thinking about withdrawing anyway. So Osama’s threat appears a bit pointless. If militant groups fight us in Iraq, we will stay longer. If they don’t fight us, we’ll go. Seems like their best strategy is to not fight us and wait for us to leave. And Osama doesn’t need to launch terrorist attacks to force us to leave since we’re going anyway. Weird. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-offers-europe-truce/240149/34 "2004-04-16T01:35:06Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > It is probably an attempt to split Europe and America,. Where BenLaden fails, Bush succeeds and he has announced his new plan for Israel which had the immediate effect of the causing the EU to express its disagreement. > [@](#): > > [http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-04/15/content\_1422372.htm](http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-04/15/content_1422372.htm) > > The European Union’s (EU) security chief Javier Solana has said that the 15-member bloc attaches great importance to the role of the Roadmap for Peace in resolving the crisis in the Middle East region. > > “Final status issues can only be resolved by mutual agreement between the parties,” he said. > > . . . the statement stressed that the EU leaders would not recognize any change to the pre-1967 borders other than those arrived at by agreement between the parties. “A permanent settlement must also include an agreed, just, fairand realistic solution to the refugee issue,” it added. The EU is more and more at odds with the USA and it’s not BenLaden who is causing it but GWB. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-offers-europe-truce/240149/35 "2004-04-16T03:39:21Z")
From what I can tell, ObL’s goal is power. He may or may not be a good Muslim, but he has repeatedly pounced on opportunities to control terrorist groups and influence the policies of other countries. He’s simply capitalizing on the hatred many Middle Easterners feel for the West in general, and Israel and the US in particular. Worked for Hitler in WWII, and all he had to pick on was Jews. Assuming this offer was in fact his, it’s a logical move. Cost him nothing, and may provide dividends. And if everyone tells him to go to hell (as was the case), it simply provides more grist for his “holy war” mill in his next “Jihad Against The Infidels” speech. I am not in favor of killing this clown, though. I am in favor of his fair trial and, assuming he is found guilty, his incarceration, preferably by the UN. Why make martyrs? If we kill this jackass, he’ll be the Muslim equivalent of Elvis… _…forever._ Killin’s too _good_ for the man. Let him _rot._ We can even be nice and civilized and tell him which way Mecca is, so he can bow and pray in the same direction every day in his cell… ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-offers-europe-truce/240149/36 "2004-04-16T03:42:29Z")
> [@Master Wang-Ka](#): > > If we kill this jackass, he’ll be the Muslim equivalent of Elvis… I beg the Board’s pardon. What I should have said was “He’ll be the \*crazed fundamentalist \* Muslim equivalent of Elvis.” I’m sure there must be any number of Muslims out there who recognize ObL for exactly what he is. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-offers-europe-truce/240149/37 "2004-04-16T06:34:37Z")
> [@Master Wang-Ka](#): > > I beg the Board’s pardon. > > What I should have said was “He’ll be the \*crazed fundamentalist \* Muslim equivalent of Elvis.” I’m sure there must be any number of Muslims out there who recognize ObL for exactly what he is. And that would be, no doubt, the mothers and fathers who have made (I do not have a cite, but I believe it in my bones, don’t you?..) Osama the boys name that displaces Mohammed? I don’t think 'sama was talking to us. I think he was talking to the people who know that dub is full of shit when he designates Iraq as a theatre in the “war on terror”; And please, don’t start foaming at the mouth about our sacred dead, our murdered 3000. We have already collected triple damages on that score in Iraq, and I believe we are already ahead of 'sama in the baby body count. If you could suspend, for a moment, your patriotic fervor, take his words by themselves, and hear them like you are, say, an Iraqi on the fence. “Please (did he really say ‘please’ or am I making that up?) stop killing us so we can stop killing you.” It is not, per se, a reprehensible prayer, is it? ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-offers-europe-truce/240149/38 "2004-04-16T06:43:41Z")
[QUOTE=Master Wang-Ka] From what I can tell, ObL’s goal is power. He may or may not be a good Muslim, but he has repeatedly pounced on opportunities to control terrorist groups and influence the policies of other countries. Killin’s too _good_ for the man. Let him _rot._ We can even be nice and civilized and tell him which way Mecca is, so he can bow and pr Um, I think we have to catch him first, don’t we? I have to say that I am so profoundly different, (and I bet you are too) from a guy with 300 million dollars of his own money, who doesn’t lay around fucking his 18 wives, but goes after the Soviets, then the Saudis, and finally decides he needs to kick some American Ass to get straight with God. This is not the lifestyle of the rich and famous, ya feel me? I don’t think his motivation is subject to rational analysis–He’s the motherfuckin’ sword of god, ya know what I mean? Ironically, George Bush is just as crazy, but not nearly as smart, tough, or charismatic. And we poor fools are in the crossfire of these two nuts, and all you can think about is how you want to eat his kishkes for breakfast… ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-offers-europe-truce/240149/39 "2004-04-16T07:12:51Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > Um, I think we have to catch him first, don’t we? > \ > …not nearly as smart, tough, or charismatic. > \ > …all you can think about is how you want to eat his kishkes for breakfast… Do you have an argument, or is this just pure flamebait? **Wang-ka** , everyone else, don’t rise to it. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2004, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-offers-europe-truce/240149/40 "2004-04-16T10:02:36Z")
> [@lambchops](#): > > Do you have an argument, or is this just pure flamebait? **Wang-ka** , everyone else, don’t rise to it. I was groping, apparently unsuccessfully, for the following: 1.This is no chump we are up against, and OUR guy has taken one two many blows to the head 1. 'sama is operating in a universe that is so foreign to our getuptakeashittakeashowergrababagelhopthesubway, motivated by considerations that are so inapposite to our issues, that attempts to apply “normal” scenaria (ie, he just wants power) to him are an invitation to further self-delusion and ultimately to our defeat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-offers-europe-truce/240149.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-offers-europe-truce/240149.md?page=3)