# Bin Laden under arrest?! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 13, 2001, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-under-arrest/81225 "2001-09-13T01:38:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dentarthurdent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@dentarthurdent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dentarthurdent)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-under-arrest/81225/21 "2001-09-13T18:41:28Z")
> [@](#): > > We can expose the people of Afghanistan to the realities of the Western world, which they have been denied, and we can break the spirit of the anti-American fanatics by stripping away every bit of viscous pride among their people By breaking a people’s spirit and stripping their pride, we are no better tham the poeple who perpetrated this act. What right do we have to say anything about their beliefs or pride. We need to remember that america is not entirely innocent in this affair. We have been interfering in middle east politics for many years, we have been staunchly pro Israelian and we have always manuevered to keep our oil interests safe. It is no wonder that many middle easterners resent us. If we have a different view of western society, maybe it’s because we aren’t paying enough attention to the behavior of our government in the middle east. ---
**Author:** ![jack\_ss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c77e96/32.png) [@jack\_ss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jack_ss)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-under-arrest/81225/22 "2001-09-13T18:48:22Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by **Tymp** _ > I don’t want war if it can be avoided. If the current threat of impending horrific and overwhelming retaliation has broken the spirit of the Taliban and the terrorists they harbor to the point that they are willing to surrender their golden boy, I think we should graciously accept. > > Then, with total willingness to use terrible force, we should place a huge military presence in their country. We could dismantle their violent and aggressive leadership. We can expose the people of Afghanistan to the realities of the Western world, which they have been denied, and we can break the spirit of the anti-American fanatics by stripping away every bit of viscous pride among their people without any massive, painful retaliation. If they surrender their own, they will have demonstrated that they are completely cowed. They will have admitted that they understand how easily they could be wiped off the plant. They will not resist much once they get to that point. We could then sit “peacefully” in their land, slowly and methodically exposing, containing and eliminating the dangerous individuals. I say we completely redefine their existence for them as they have demonstrated an inability to establish an appropriate identity as human beings. > > If we bomb and attack them, we will do nothing but spark a new level of hatred that will lick its wounds for a while and emerge as something even more terrible in the future. > > I don’t want war. I want a solution. I agree wholeheartedly. However, I think the solution could easily be described as war. The Taliban is the worst violator of human rights on the planet, including China and African nations. They provide refuge to the terrorist organization that appears to be responsible for the most depraved act in history. The only solution to this situation I can see is to bring the Taliban down, hunt down Bin Laden’s organization to a man and imprison them for life, just like the UN did to the Nazis 55 years ago. This will take a long time. Right now we’re investigating the incident, uncovering who is responsible, and according to the press it looks like Bin Laden. I would bet that military planning is already going on. Then come the operations. I would be outraged if the Taliban simply handed over Bin Laden as someone else would take command of his organization and the Afghan people would still be stuck with a barbaric government. I think they should be brought down as they bear responsibility for the attacks in harboring the Bin Laden organization. Unfortunately, even with our smart missiles there will be collateral damage, which means that children will die. It’s a war that their parent’s peers started. Re-structuring a society will be viewed as imperialism by millions. Fuck 'em. We can’t accept the alternative. ---
**Author:** ![Tymp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Tymp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tymp)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-under-arrest/81225/23 "2001-09-13T18:59:52Z")
> [@](#): > > By breaking a people’s spirit and stripping their pride, we are no better tham the poeple who perpetrated this act. To be sure. However, only one way of life can survive this confrontation and I insist that it must not be the way of terror. The hate-filled ideals that prevail among some Middle Eastern peoples will continue to breed individuals willing to perpetrate horrific acts of terrorism against civilians. Also, the majority of Americans who suffered and died on Tuesday _were_ perfectly innocent and had nothing to do or say about American involvement in other countries. The tragedy of their fates is not lessened by any past actions of our government. ---
**Author:** ![Gomez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d78d45/32.png) [@Gomez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gomez)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-under-arrest/81225/24 "2001-09-13T19:03:52Z")
It was my impression that Bin Laden’s been under ‘house arrest’ for several years now. It sounds like the Talibans leaders are just trotting this minor irrelevancy out now to placate the US. Hopefully it won’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-under-arrest/81225/25 "2001-09-13T19:04:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tymp \* > \*\ ***Wildest Bill** , > > You are an impediment to the American way of life. Your rhetoric is that of a terrorist and not an American. Please cease and desist or join the ranks of our enemy, Hatred. \*\* You’re right. Let’s spend a bunch of money on lawyers to try to get them off with some loophole. If they do get convicted, lets put them in a cozy federal pen and give them free shelter, medical care, and food for the rest of their life. ---
**Author:** ![Tymp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Tymp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tymp)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-under-arrest/81225/26 "2001-09-13T19:09:57Z")
**jack@ss** , Our missiles and bombs will not find the targets we desire. Alone, they will serve only to escalate the violence by creating new, more determined terrorists. A campaign in Afghanistan must be fought on the ground and it will be the worst possible sort of fight. Keep in mind that the Taliban is not the recognized authority in Afghanistan. They are a faction like the many others vying for power in that country. A US presence could assist the weaker, more moderate organizations while working to de-fang and dismantle the most aggressive. A strategic missile or bombing campaign would damage everyone in that country and unify them in a new level of hatred for the US. ---
**Author:** ![dentarthurdent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@dentarthurdent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dentarthurdent)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-under-arrest/81225/27 "2001-09-13T19:15:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Also, the majority of Americans who suffered and died on Tuesday were perfectly innocent and had nothing to do or say about American involvement in other countries. This is not entirely true, I hold that we as a people are directly responsible for the actions of our government. Yes it is difficult to speak out and make a difference as an individual but we as a people have been too lax for too long in monitoring the behavior of our government. When people in a “Democratic” society are more interested in what sitcom is on that they are in what our government is doing, we are at least in part culpable for the results of those actions. This is in no way meant to imply justification for terrorism or these acts, it is merely a point that we need to make sure our side of the street is clean before we go haring off to kill people and destroy a culture. > [@](#): > > The tragedy of their fates is not lessened by any past actions of our government. I agree, I did not mean to imply that at all, I am simply stating that if we want to prevent this from happening in the future, we had better start by taking a hard look at our own country’s behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Tymp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Tymp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tymp)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-under-arrest/81225/28 "2001-09-13T19:15:49Z")
**Wildest Bill** , Even in war, we must demonstrate our continued desire for peace. The things that you suggest do not serve that end. What you have advocated is a perpetual escalation of violence and terror. You are advocating that we espouse the ideals of our enemies. You are advocating that we admit to them our defeat. ---
**Author:** ![Tymp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Tymp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tymp)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-under-arrest/81225/29 "2001-09-13T19:31:29Z")
**dentarthurdent** , > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > The tragedy of their fates is not lessened by any past actions of our government. > > I agree, I did not mean to imply that at all, I am simply stating that if we want to prevent this from happening in the future, we had better start by taking a hard look at our own country’s behavior. You are absolutely correct. In order to prevent the triumph of terrorism, we must work to redefine world politics. We must address our role in the world and the roots of hatred. More immediately, however, we must address those who are acting and likely to act on that hatred which has spiraled wildly out of control. We must change our behavior, but we cannot allow our civilians to meet fiery, crushing deaths while we change. ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-under-arrest/81225/30 "2001-09-13T19:38:20Z")
Tymp, I don’t like it anymore than you do. But like I said what we are doing is not working they keep killing ours. When you deal with a bully you can’t reason with him. The only way to stop a bully is to kick his ass or at least fight him. I think one reason why these terrorist keep messing with us is because they think we are wimps and won’t do anything radical. Maybe it is time to show them that we are sick of it. I did like Whack a mole’s idea of putting bin laden in a plexiglass cell where the trade center use to be so people can mock and spit at him. ---
**Author:** ![Tymp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Tymp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tymp)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-under-arrest/81225/31 "2001-09-13T19:49:56Z")
**Wildest Bill** , This fight of which you speak is likely on its way. By advocating the adoption of terrorist tactics like torture and summary execution, you are admitting defeat before the battle has begun. Take a moment to imagine what it is that your children’s children will be reading in their history books. Please help us to ensure that there will not be a chapter devoted to American atrocities, torture tactics and terror campaigns. ---
**Author:** ![Tymp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Tymp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tymp)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-under-arrest/81225/32 "2001-09-13T19:54:18Z")
**Texas Spur** , It seems that I have been party to the derailing of your thread. Sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-under-arrest/81225/33 "2001-09-13T19:56:44Z")
Tymp, Like I said I totally see your point. That is why I am retracting torturing them. But what do you think about the plexiglass cell in New York as his prison home idea instead of being executed by injection? I think that is a fitting punishment for the crime. ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-under-arrest/81225/34 "2001-09-13T20:03:14Z")
Tymp, Like I said I totally see your point. That is why I am retracting torturing them. But what do you think about the plexiglass cell in New York as his prison home idea instead of being executed by injection? I think that is a fitting punishment for the crime. ---
**Author:** ![NutWrench](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nutwrench/32/20193_2.png) [@NutWrench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NutWrench)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-under-arrest/81225/35 "2001-09-13T21:52:07Z")
Turning over Bin Laden won’t be enough. What’s to prevent him from turning over control of his terrorist organization to one of his associates before he surrenders himself? The government of Afghanistan need to be completely replaced. We’re certainly not going to get billions of dollars in repairations from them, so I think we’re entirely within our rights to pick and choose whatever provisional government we want. Once the people of Afghanistan have demonstrated that they can refrain from blowing up their neighbors, then we’ll see about letting them have elections. ---
**Author:** ![jabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/db5fbb/32.png) [@jabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jabe)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-under-arrest/81225/36 "2001-09-13T22:59:32Z")
NutWrench; you think we are ‘within our rights’ to go to Afghanistan and replace their government? What gives us the right to do that? Why does the US think it can police the world? Who is to say that a democratic government could or would work over there? While we are at it, why dont we put a 7-11 on every corner and make all the Arabs wear Abercrombie and Fitch. peace, JB ---
**Author:** ![NutWrench](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nutwrench/32/20193_2.png) [@NutWrench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NutWrench)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-under-arrest/81225/37 "2001-09-13T23:31:49Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by jabe \* **NutWrench; you think we are ‘within our rights’ to go to Afghanistan and replace their government? What gives us the right to do that?** At least 10,000 dead U.S. civilians? Why is it unreasonable for us to take steps to protect ourselves? What are the alternatives? Do you think a few cuise missile strikes on Kabul followed by a presidential statement on how we are all “safe” again will be sufficient? > [@](#): > > Why does the US think it can police the world? Who is to say that a democratic government could or would work over there? Why not? If the Afghan government can’t or won’t control its current crop of mass murderers, then why shouldn’t order be imposed from outside? > [@](#): > > While we are at it, why dont we put a 7-11 on every corner and make all the Arabs wear Abercrombie and Fitch. Don’t know if this helps, but I was actually thinking of chains of McDonalds restaraunts that served nothing but bacon and Sausage McMuffins™. ---
**Author:** ![NutWrench](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nutwrench/32/20193_2.png) [@NutWrench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NutWrench)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-under-arrest/81225/38 "2001-09-13T23:34:54Z")
Darn quotes! Must hit preview. (Mods: feel free to fix above and delete this post) ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2001, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-under-arrest/81225/39 "2001-09-13T23:41:31Z")
NW, the casualty figures are likely to come in at about half that (aroud 5,000). This is such an enormous and staggering number that IMO there is no need to inflate it. ---
**Author:** ![NutWrench](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nutwrench/32/20193_2.png) [@NutWrench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NutWrench)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-under-arrest/81225/40 "2001-09-14T01:55:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jodi \* > \*\*NW, the casualty figures are likely to come in at about half that (aroud 5,000). This is such an enormous and staggering number that IMO there is no need to inflate it. \*\* Point taken. Current casualty figures are about 5,000. Mayor Gulliani has stated that the city of New York has ordered 30,000 body bags [(AP Wire)](http://wire.ap.org/APnews/?SITE=TXSAN&FRONTID=HOME). Removing the remaining rubble will take several more weeks and I fear many more bodies [sub]and body parts[/sub] will be discovered. I wish there had been a better way to say that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-under-arrest/81225.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-under-arrest/81225.md?page=3)