# Bin Laden win NOT be taken alive **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 1, 2001, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-win-not-be-taken-alive/90877 "2001-11-01T07:39:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-win-not-be-taken-alive/90877/1 "2001-11-01T07:39:44Z")
Even in the unlikely event that he suddenly surrenders himself to US ground forces, I believe that they have orders to execute him on the spot. The reason? To bring him to trial would be a no-win situation for the US. **Best case:** He’s convicted and executed, but the (lengthy) trial of the century makes him ten times a bigger martyr. **Worst case:** Jonnie Cochran uses the Chewbacca defense and gets him off. O.J. actually redeems himself by stabbing him to death at the victory party… Seriously though, I do not see him being brought to trial if captured by US forces. ---
**Author:** ![themoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9dc877/32.png) [@themoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/themoon)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-win-not-be-taken-alive/90877/2 "2001-11-01T08:32:19Z")
I don’t know. I can see how bin Laden would want to be captured. Imagine the stage he would have! If he ever went to trial, it would make O.J. look like a side-show. It would be the biggest trial ever, and every word he said would be repeated endlessly. It strikes me that this is exactly what he has always wanted. I wouldn’t be surprised if he tried to drag this out a bit longer, and then gave himself up. ---
**Author:** ![zuma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9c0ed/32.png) [@zuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zuma)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-win-not-be-taken-alive/90877/3 "2001-11-01T10:12:44Z")
Agreed. He’ll be killed, even if he is captured alive. Further, it won’t be revealed that he is dead until the taliban are overthrown. ---
**Author:** ![Izzardesque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a9adbd/32.png) [@Izzardesque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Izzardesque)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-win-not-be-taken-alive/90877/4 "2001-11-01T10:31:57Z")
Yes, but even if you kill him, that will just further his cause too – killed by the infidel capitalists who haven’t the decency to prove guilt before execution. As much as I agree that these terrorists have to be stopped, I think we have chosen a war that can’t be won. ---
**Author:** ![NiceGuyJack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/niceguyjack/32/3069_2.png) [@NiceGuyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NiceGuyJack)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-win-not-be-taken-alive/90877/5 "2001-11-01T10:33:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zuma \* > \*\*Agreed. He’ll be killed, even if he is captured alive. Further, it won’t be revealed that he is dead until the taliban are overthrown. \*\* That’s a good point. No one has heard from him for some time now. Perhaps he is already pushing up the daisies? ---
**Author:** ![NiceGuyJack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/niceguyjack/32/3069_2.png) [@NiceGuyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NiceGuyJack)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-win-not-be-taken-alive/90877/6 "2001-11-01T10:36:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Izzardesque \* > \*\*Yes, but even if you kill him, that will just further his cause too Ekilled by the infidel capitalists who haven’t the decency to prove guilt before execution. As much as I agree that these terrorists have to be stopped, I think we have chosen a war that can’t be won. \*\* Perhaps we can try denial? There’s no proof that _we_ killed him? It seems to work for him, I say same tactics apply. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-win-not-be-taken-alive/90877/7 "2001-11-01T10:38:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NiceGuyJack \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by zuma \* > > \*\*Agreed. He’ll be killed, even if he is captured alive. Further, it won’t be revealed that he is dead until the taliban are overthrown. \*\* > > That’s a good point. No one has heard from him for some time now. Perhaps he is already pushing up the daisies? \*\* Somehow I see his burnt carcass as being devoured by Central Asian vultures long before any daisies take root. Nah, the reason he hasn’t been heard from isn’t that he’s been killed, but because he’s trying very desperately not to be. ---
**Author:** ![Izzardesque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a9adbd/32.png) [@Izzardesque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Izzardesque)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-win-not-be-taken-alive/90877/8 "2001-11-01T10:52:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NiceGuyJack \* > > Perhaps we can try denial? > There’s no proof that _we_ killed him? > It seems to work for him, I say same tactics apply. I don’t think that would work, because everyone KNOWS or suspects you will kill him pretty much on sight. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-win-not-be-taken-alive/90877/9 "2001-11-01T13:47:23Z")
I dunno, a quick trial, where he wasn’t allowed to go off on irrelevant anti-American rants (instead of answering questions of guilt or innocence) has its value. We’d turn him from a folk hero and martyr in waiting to a common criminal. Let’s not have another Che Guevara. Not that he’s likely to be taken alive. I suspect that his own men may make an attempt on his life for bringing their operation crashing down around them. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-win-not-be-taken-alive/90877/10 "2001-11-01T14:53:32Z")
A trial would make him the John Brown of the radical Islamist movement. Look at the parallels:[ol][li]Brown commits nutty acts of terrorism in Kansas and then at Harper’s Ferry in the name of the anti-slavery cause.[_]Brown gets captured at Harper’s Ferry, and uses the publicity surrounding the ensuing trial to create a platform for his ideas.[_]Brown’s letters to supporters are lovingly reproduced in the abolitionist press.[_]Brown manages to transform himself from nut-job to martyr.[_]Brown is executed.[_]Brown is immortalized in song “John Brown’s Body.”[_]Brown becomes an icon for the abolitionist movement, and an inspiration to Union soldiers, who sing “John Brown’s Body” as they march to battle.[/ol][/li] Now granted, Brown’s cause was a good one. He was still a nut job, and the parallels are still there. Capture and trial of bin Laden will make him into a martyr in exactly the same way, and will just give him the sort of platform Brown had (increased exponentially by electronic media). Of course, bin Laden’s death on the ground in Afghanistan will make him a martyr, too, but at least it will deny him a grand platform for his ideas, and thereby reduce the likelihood of his deification. ---
**Author:** ![FortMarcy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9de053/32.png) [@FortMarcy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FortMarcy)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-win-not-be-taken-alive/90877/11 "2001-11-01T15:25:39Z")
1. If you kill him, why tell anyone? 2. If you capture him, why not quietly turn him over to an Islamic court of justice? ---
**Author:** ![Izzardesque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a9adbd/32.png) [@Izzardesque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Izzardesque)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-win-not-be-taken-alive/90877/12 "2001-11-01T15:44:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FortMarcy \* > \*\*1. If you kill him, why tell anyone? > > \*\* If he disappears without a trace, or winds up dead somewhere without it being a public execution after a fair trial etc. do you think that the blame won’t be firmly placed on US shoulders, again making him a martyr? ---
**Author:** ![Vinnie\_Virginslayer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/53a042/32.png) [@Vinnie\_Virginslayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vinnie_Virginslayer)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-win-not-be-taken-alive/90877/13 "2001-11-01T15:46:21Z")
There are rumors all over the Internet that bin-Laden has been assassinated, and the US government is covering it up so they can continue to bomb. There are also reports he has a kidney disease, and may die of natural causes before we get to him. I fear trying to take him alive. I have a bad feeling either he or someone close by will have a suicide bomb pack prepared to blow up and soldiers that try and take him. I would shoot to kill and be done with it. ---
**Author:** ![FortMarcy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9de053/32.png) [@FortMarcy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FortMarcy)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-win-not-be-taken-alive/90877/14 "2001-11-01T16:00:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Izzardesque \* > \*\*If he disappears without a trace, or winds up dead somewhere without it being a public execution after a fair trial etc. do you think that the blame won’t be firmly placed on US shoulders, again making him a martyr? \*\* Who is the last matyr you can name who just disappeared? You can’t be a matyr unless people are sure that you are dead. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-win-not-be-taken-alive/90877/15 "2001-11-01T16:01:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Vinnie Virginslayer \* > \*\*I would shoot to kill and be done with it. \*\* Not to be crude, but I’d shoot the fucker in the happy-sack and let him bleed to death slowly. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-win-not-be-taken-alive/90877/16 "2001-11-01T16:14:31Z")
A trial in the US would be bad given the accused’s rights. He’d probably get the death penalty and I’m not aware fo a death penalty case that saw the defendant put to death in less than 10 years from his sentencing. That’d be a LOT of time for him and his followers to agitate for his release. However, a trial in a ‘friendly’ Islamic country would be much better. Their trials are considerably faster and it seems that the defendant’s guilt is decided long before the trial ever starts. They also don’t have the same rights to endless appeals so the sentence would be carried out much quicker. Muslims, while probably angry at the regime that did him in, would have a lot less to go on than if the US got him. Finally, Islamic death sentences tend to be much more ‘creative’ than the painless method of lethal injection in the US. If that isn’t in the cards however expect ObL to be delivered dead no matter what state he is in when captured. The only way around that, if ObL is smart and sees his imminent capture and then turns himself over in front of a LOT of cameras. ---
**Author:** ![Blacksheepsmith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@Blacksheepsmith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blacksheepsmith)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-win-not-be-taken-alive/90877/17 "2001-11-01T16:17:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Menocchio \* > \*\*I suspect that his own men may make an attempt on his life for bringing their operation crashing down around them. \*\* I think this is a strong possibility. It just makes sense. You kill him, the bombing eventually ends, the US eventually eases off, _and_ you get to take his place. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-win-not-be-taken-alive/90877/18 "2001-11-01T16:36:17Z")
Couple of points to ponder-\> 1. I was under the impression that if the Americans come marching into his cave his son, has a standing order to shoot him. 2. If the unlikely scenerio happens and a platoon of Navy Seals infiltrates his cave and actually captures him… **Don’t even try to tell me a US soldier would cuff him and take him into custody**. No way, they will put a bullet or two between his eyes and _then_ cart him out of there. 3. If the entire operation ends after OBL is killed, the state of the world will only be better till another person can be trained to do the same thing OBL has done. 4)Bush and his administration are going to have to keep there word and go after terrorism where ever it shows its dirty head. This will take all of Bushs 4 years, undoubtedly. And possibly into his successor’s term. 5)OBL is just the first head that will be mounted on the wall, he is only the first trophy, hopfully followed close with Saddam’s head. ---
**Author:** ![Izzardesque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a9adbd/32.png) [@Izzardesque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Izzardesque)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-win-not-be-taken-alive/90877/19 "2001-11-01T16:59:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FortMarcy \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Izzardesque \* > > \*\*If he disappears without a trace, or winds up dead somewhere without it being a public execution after a fair trial etc. do you think that the blame won’t be firmly placed on US shoulders, again making him a martyr? \*\* > > Who is the last matyr you can name who just disappeared? You can’t be a matyr unless people are sure that you are dead. \*\* OK, so I suppose I used the wrong word, but people will reckon you killed him no matter what - and they will try to use that against you. After that, it will be like a hydra, cut one head off, and two more will sprout up to take its place. ---
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-win-not-be-taken-alive/90877/20 "2001-11-01T17:23:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hail Ants \* > **Best case:** He’s convicted and executed, but the (lengthy) trial of the century makes him ten times a bigger martyr. Actually, a lot of experts are talking about trying bin Laden by executive or military tribunal. Such a tribunal would not be bound by normal US legal conventions. It would not have to be lengthy or public. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bin-laden-win-not-be-taken-alive/90877.md?page=2)