# Bioware backlash? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 13, 2012, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bioware-backlash/615616 "2012-03-13T03:08:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bioware-backlash/615616/41 "2012-03-17T06:05:55Z")
> [@Gukumatz](#): > > On another note, as one of the disappointed gamers, I’d like to point out that I do respect the artistic integrity and the right of a work’s author to decide how it plays out. As a fan of the 40k setting, I do not. A lot of shared universes have their share of crap, and I would sooner excise it from my headcanon than respect an author for making stupid decisions. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bioware-backlash/615616/42 "2012-03-17T18:17:28Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > As a fan of the 40k setting, I do not. A lot of shared universes have their share of crap, and I would sooner excise it from my headcanon than respect an author for making stupid decisions. I agree. There’s a different between having the right to do something, and actually _doing it right_. Shared universes in particular are susceptible to this, because quite often the people doing one section don’t communicate the themes and ideas well to another. Mass Effect 2, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bioware-backlash/615616/43 "2012-03-17T18:39:24Z")
Mass Effect isn’t a shared universe. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bioware-backlash/615616/44 "2012-03-17T19:12:55Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Mass Effect isn’t a shared universe. _Every_ video game is a shared universe, unless it was actually created by just one or two people. And no A-list title in decades has been made so. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bioware-backlash/615616/45 "2012-03-18T06:50:16Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > _Every_ video game is a shared universe, unless it was actually created by just one or two people. And no A-list title in decades has been made so. Yeah, but that’s true of… almost everything that’s not a book (and even some of those) from the past 20 years. I’d say that if you maintain a consistent lead writer or group of lead writers that have creative control over the story, it counts as “not shared.” It’s only when you get into comic book land of “every 6 months some new guy gets 100% creative control over storyline decisions” that you get into the wackiness of “shared universes.” ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bioware-backlash/615616/46 "2012-03-18T07:57:13Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > I’d say that if you maintain a consistent lead writer or group of lead writers that have creative control over the story, it counts as “not shared.” It’s only when you get into comic book land of “every 6 months some new guy gets 100% creative control over storyline decisions” that you get into the wackiness of “shared universes.” Isn’t that what went wrong with Mass Effect? ME1, part of ME2 and the novels had Drew Karpyshyn as the head writer, and they were good. Part of ME2, ME3 and Deception were written by others, and they sucked horribly. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bioware-backlash/615616/47 "2012-03-18T13:03:43Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I don’t think this is fair to SWTOR; I’ve been playing 10-12 hours a week since launch and haven’t finished any of the eight stories yet (I’m still playing my first two concurrently). I can’t imagine anyone exhausting all eight class stories in a month unless they are literally playing full time. And that doesn’t include any endgame content (which is sparse now, but so it was for WoW and Rift after the first three months). I’m enjoying it more than I have WoW for quite some time. Most people are not going to replay the game for the storylines when it requires repeating 80% or so of the content. The personal story is a small fraction of the leveling process, I personally got a 50 a 41 and a 32 and simply couldn’t force myself slog through the same content any more. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bioware-backlash/615616/48 "2012-03-18T14:42:49Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Yeah, but that’s true of… almost everything that’s not a book (and even some of those) from the past 20 years. I’d say that if you maintain a consistent lead writer or group of lead writers that have creative control over the story, it counts as “not shared.” The fact that you don’t like the implications of a logical, self-consistent principle doesn’t mean it’s wrong. > [@](#): > > It’s only when you get into comic book land of “every 6 months some new guy gets 100% creative control over storyline decisions” that you get into the wackiness of “shared universes.” Except that right in ME2 you started getting incresingly nonsensical bull. I saw almost all the plot twists coming a mile away… except for the final one which still makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bioware-backlash/615616/49 "2012-03-18T15:33:00Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > The fact that you don’t like the implications of a logical, self-consistent principle doesn’t mean it’s wrong. When people talk about shared universe, they’re usually talking about something like Spiderman, where “depending on the writer” he has this or that power or this or that personality. Most TV shows and games have multiple writers, yes, but they’re at the same time and they fall under a generally consistent “story bible” that is maintained by a single lead writer (or a committee for some shows). This is essentially a single-writer universe since they have veto power and do consistency checks, it’s just that it’s economically and temporally infeasible to write it all themselves. It doesn’t share the “depending on whether we’re talking about 1996 Spiderman, 1998 Spiderman, or 1998 Spiderman’s cameo in a Thor comic” that we get when most people talk about “shared universes” which is a lot more of a “Wild West” where any writer can write and thing they damn well please, where it doesn’t have to be consistent with one person’s vision or really any “story bible” aside from basic guidelines. Sure, **semantically** it’s a shared universe, but these large team productions don’t maintain the same qualities that what is traditionally called a “shared universe” medium typically share. You can go ahead and call all video games, movies, and TV shared universes despite the fact that they generally operate under a shared vision, but it really hides the differences between that kind of “shared medium” and the kind of “shared medium” like the Star Wars expanded universe or the Marvel universe that people normally mean when they use the term. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bioware-backlash/615616/50 "2012-03-18T18:04:53Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Most people are not going to replay the game for the storylines when it requires repeating 80% or so of the content. The personal story is a small fraction of the leveling process, I personally got a 50 a 41 and a 32 and simply couldn’t force myself slog through the same content any more. Since I am treating it as essentially eight single player games, I do wonder what I will do when I finish them all but at my current rate that may not be for a year from now. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bioware-backlash/615616/51 "2012-03-18T18:24:14Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > When people talk about shared universe, they’re usually talking about something like Spiderman, where “depending on the writer” he has this or that power or this or that personality. Most TV shows and games have multiple writers, yes, but they’re at the same time and they fall under a generally consistent “story bible” that is maintained by a single lead writer (or a committee for some shows). This is essentially a single-writer universe since they have veto power and do consistency checks, it’s just that it’s economically and temporally infeasible to write it all themselves. Count up all the people who worked on Mass Effect series just with regards to plot events alone. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bioware-backlash/615616/52 "2012-03-18T18:29:05Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Count up all the people who worked on Mass Effect series just with regards to plot events alone. So? **Jragon** ’s description is right on. You have totally mangled the concept of a “shared universe.” Your definition is not how the phrase is used anywhere else. You are wrong, please deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![softwind2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@softwind2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/softwind2)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bioware-backlash/615616/53 "2012-03-18T18:35:38Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > So? **Jragon** ’s description is right on. You have totally mangled the concept of a “shared universe.” Your definition is not how the phrase is used anywhere else. You are wrong, please deal with it. Thats quite true ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bioware-backlash/615616/54 "2012-03-18T20:56:58Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Most people are not going to replay the game for the storylines when it requires repeating 80% or so of the content. The personal story is a small fraction of the leveling process, I personally got a 50 a 41 and a 32 and simply couldn’t force myself slog through the same content any more. There are also two separate factions to play with different non-story quests, so you could get two characters to 50 without repeating a single mission if you want to. It’s fine if you don’t care for the game, everyone has different tastes in MMOs. But it’s silly to complain that SWTOR doesn’t have enough content only three months after launch when you can’t possibly have seen it all yet (and by your own admission, haven’t). ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bioware-backlash/615616/55 "2012-03-18T21:59:38Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > So? **Jragon** ’s description is right on. You have totally mangled the concept of a “shared universe.” Your definition is not how the phrase is used anywhere else. You are wrong, please deal with it. I know exactly what the concept means. I’m saying it logically and consistently applies. The Mass Effect series has had numerous writers who quote clearly didn’t agree on some fundamentals, despite having a very short run. Being small is no bar to being divided. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bioware-backlash/615616/56 "2012-03-18T22:11:30Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > I know exactly what the concept means. I’m saying it logically and consistently applies. The Mass Effect series has had numerous writers who quote clearly didn’t agree on some fundamentals, despite having a very short run. Do you even realize that games have directors just like films and that all story are ultimately the decision of one person? I repeat… YOU. ARE. WRONG. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bioware-backlash/615616.md?page=2)