# Birds are mammals!!
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birds-are-mammals/272126
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [October 31, 2004, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birds-are-mammals/272126 "2004-10-31T04:37:50Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2004, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birds-are-mammals/272126/61 "2004-11-01T18:43:03Z")
Seriously. Cherry pepsi expelled nasally hurts.
> [@doc\_cathode](#):
>
> Because male seahorses don’t give birth. They just hold fertilized eggs in a pouch until they hatch.
I really don’t mean to quibble with you. But since this is a Pit thread, I suppose someone is required to argue about something. What exactly do you think I did when I got pregnant with my kids, exactly? Stuff 'em in a jar and stash 'em in the closet? 😛
If they come out of your body, YOU are giving birth. The female doesn’t do it by osmosis. Just my opinion, of course.
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### Author:  [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2004, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birds-are-mammals/272126/62 "2004-11-01T18:48:35Z")
:smack: :smack: :smack: :smack:
And I’m sorry for messing up your screen name.
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### Author:  [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birds-are-mammals/272126/63 "2004-11-01T21:15:59Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#):
>
> I don’t _care_ how many rail their choo-choos run on, keep em away from me.
Ah, forget it. It’s more of a Shelbyville idea anyway…
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### Author:  [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birds-are-mammals/272126/64 "2004-11-01T22:32:26Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#):
>
> I know they’re not. When I was about 8 years old, I had a globe of the world that came with a 45 RPM record on which a narrator described a sea voyage around the world; you were supposed to follow along on the globe. When you got to Australia, the narrator mentioned the Platypus as being “half bird–half animal”!!
Why do I get the feeling that this narrator went on to a long and illustrious career as “fact checker” for Trivial Pursuit?
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### Author:  [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2004, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birds-are-mammals/272126/65 "2004-11-01T22:33:31Z")
Or quite possibly Rush Limbaugh…
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### Author:  [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2004, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birds-are-mammals/272126/66 "2004-11-01T23:18:54Z")
> [@Lemur866](#):
>
> Ah, forget it. It’s more of a Shelbyville idea anyway…
I prefer Margaritaville, myself. 😉
_searchin’ for my large shaker of salt, some people claim that there’s a woman to blame, but I know, it’s my own damn fault_
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### Author:  [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2004, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birds-are-mammals/272126/67 "2004-11-01T23:21:30Z")
Who are you who are so learned in the ways of science?
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### Author:  [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2004, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birds-are-mammals/272126/68 "2004-11-01T23:24:20Z")
> [@cricetus](#):
>
> Who are you who are so learned in the ways of science?
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain 😉
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### Author:  [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)
#### Post date: [November 2, 2004, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birds-are-mammals/272126/69 "2004-11-02T01:39:20Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#):
>
> Now does this mean:
>
> 1. Foreskins make good Calamari
> 2. Calamari makes a good substitute for foreskin
> 3. Both 1. and 2.
> 4. Some, but not all cephalopods are circumcised
>
> _Seafood foreskins. The other white meat_
You’re close, but you got #2 kinda reversed.
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### Author:  [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)
#### Post date: [November 2, 2004, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birds-are-mammals/272126/70 "2004-11-02T05:37:32Z")
> [@Loopydude](#):
>
> You’re close, but you got #2 kinda reversed.
Are you callin’ me squid dick, cowboy?
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### Author:  [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)
#### Post date: [November 2, 2004, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birds-are-mammals/272126/71 "2004-11-02T05:40:14Z")
Hey, it’d be better than “Octopussy”. 😃
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### Author:  [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)
#### Post date: [November 2, 2004, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birds-are-mammals/272126/72 "2004-11-02T19:17:45Z")
> [@Maureen](#):
>
> I really don’t mean to quibble with you. But since this is a Pit thread, I suppose someone is required to argue about something. What exactly do you think I did when I got pregnant with my kids, exactly? Stuff 'em in a jar and stash 'em in the closet? 😛
>
> If they come out of your body, YOU are giving birth. The female doesn’t do it by osmosis. Just my opinion, of course.
I’m guessing that you changed oocytes(OTTOMH I think that’s the right term) to ova, dropped them from ovarian folicles so that they could rendezvous with team spermatozoa, then had blastocysts implant on the walls of your uterus, after that you spent about nine months passing oxygen and nutrients to the fetus.
The male seahorse only produces sperm. The female seahorse produces eggs. The male fertilizes these. The pouchs main function IIRC is to keep the fertilized eggs safe from predators. He doesn’t pass nutrients or oxygen to the eggs. The pouch is an external thing. IIRC the male penguin carries fertilized eggs between his feet and belly. It’s the same principle. He didn’t produce the egg. He fertilized it and keeps it safe until it hatches.
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### Author:  [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)
#### Post date: [November 2, 2004, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birds-are-mammals/272126/73 "2004-11-02T19:37:05Z")
> [@DocCathode](#):
>
> I’m guessing that you changed oocytes(OTTOMH I think that’s the right term) to ova, dropped them from ovarian folicles so that they could rendezvous with team spermatozoa, then had blastocysts implant on the walls of your uterus, after that you spent about nine months passing oxygen and nutrients to the fetus.
>
> The male seahorse only produces sperm. The female seahorse produces eggs. The male fertilizes these. The pouchs main function IIRC is to keep the fertilized eggs safe from predators. He doesn’t pass nutrients or oxygen to the eggs. The pouch is an external thing. IIRC the male penguin carries fertilized eggs between his feet and belly. It’s the same principle. He didn’t produce the egg. He fertilized it and keeps it safe until it hatches.
Or you could throw in the midwife toad as another example.
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### Author:  [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)
#### Post date: [November 2, 2004, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birds-are-mammals/272126/74 "2004-11-02T19:47:20Z")
> [@Maureen](#):
>
> Or quite possibly Rush Limbaugh…
Naw! Rverybody knows Rush Limbaugh is a reptile!
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### Author:  [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)
#### Post date: [November 2, 2004, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birds-are-mammals/272126/75 "2004-11-02T19:49:38Z")
Ya know what the midwife toad me?
“Get out of my light, you sperm doner!”
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### Author:  [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)
#### Post date: [November 2, 2004, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birds-are-mammals/272126/76 "2004-11-02T19:55:27Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#):
>
> **ETF** posted the climax of this discussion.
> [Tits!](http://coastal.er.usgs.gov/navassa/photos/lb/hike/RFBoobie.jpg) oh wait, those are boobies…
Yesssssss! Boobies! One great big boobie and a little baby boobie that’s already been to the boobie hatch.
Can you say rubber baby boobie bumpers three times fast without slobbering? ::hic!::\*
- We need an intoxika…, intocsick, um, drunk smilie!
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### Author:  [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)
#### Post date: [November 2, 2004, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birds-are-mammals/272126/77 "2004-11-02T20:18:57Z")
> [@DocCathode](#):
>
> I’m guessing that you changed oocytes(OTTOMH I think that’s the right term) to ova, dropped them from ovarian folicles so that they could rendezvous with team spermatozoa, then had blastocysts implant on the walls of your uterus, after that you spent about nine months passing oxygen and nutrients to the fetus.
>
> The male seahorse only produces sperm. The female seahorse produces eggs. The male fertilizes these. The pouchs main function IIRC is to keep the fertilized eggs safe from predators. He doesn’t pass nutrients or oxygen to the eggs. The pouch is an external thing. IIRC the male penguin carries fertilized eggs between his feet and belly. It’s the same principle. He didn’t produce the egg. He fertilized it and keeps it safe until it hatches.
Yes, but please note, at no time did I say the male sea horse was pregnant. (wait, did I? Crap I don’t remember. Hang on, back to page one. Okay, no, I didn’t.) I said he gave birth. Which, technically, he does. The baby seahorses are born from an organic pouch on his body. They are born live. He gives birth to them.
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### Author:  [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)
#### Post date: [November 2, 2004, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birds-are-mammals/272126/78 "2004-11-02T20:56:41Z")
> [@Maureen](#):
>
> Yes, but please note, at no time did I say the male sea horse was pregnant. (wait, did I? Crap I don’t remember. Hang on, back to page one. Okay, no, I didn’t.) I said he gave birth. Which, technically, he does. The baby seahorses are born from an organic pouch on his body. They are born live. He gives birth to them.
I would disagree that this constitutes birth. There are egglaying species which do give birth to live young. OTTOMH ovaviviparous species include- some species of shark in which the female never lays the eggs but incubates them inside her body until they hatch in a pseudo-uterus, and rattlesnakes in whch the mother retains the eggs (which have a very thin and transparent shell) within her body until they are ready to hatch, the young snakes hatch immediately upon exiting the mother’s body. Here, there is a grey area as to what constitutes birth. Not so with the hippocampus.
The female seahorse produces and lays eggs. Young exit the mother as undeveloped eggs. The embryos develop and grow to maturity outside of the mother’s body. The male seahorse incubates the fertilized eggs in an external pouch. There are some species of insect in which the female uses her ovipositor to lay the fertilized eggs under the skin or exoskeleton of another animal. This does not make the dog, spider, or human being with larvae hatching out of their skin the birth mother.
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### Author:  [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)
#### Post date: [November 2, 2004, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birds-are-mammals/272126/79 "2004-11-02T21:05:53Z")
May I just pause to first say: Ew. Ew, ew, ew. 😛 I just finished lunch.
I agree that in the cases you mentioned, the remaining mass of organic tissue does not constitute “giving birth.” I think the distinction we are quibbling over is semantic; are you saying that surrogates do not give birth because they did not produce ova? Or that, in this particular case, the ova would be “hatched,” even were they not attached to the male seahorse? One last question: Are hippocampi mammals?
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### Author:  [@TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TellMeI_mNotCrazy)
#### Post date: [November 2, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birds-are-mammals/272126/80 "2004-11-02T21:25:46Z")
If it helps at all (which I’m sure it doesn’t) ever since I learned that the male seahorse “gives birth” to the young, I periodically have to go over in my head why this doesn’t just make him the female, and hence the mother. And as soon as I reason it out in my head, all nice and logical-like, I promptly forget, and go through it again the next time I have reason to give it thought.
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