# Birth control, breast pumps, counseling for abuse? Are we going to do pedicures & manicures as well? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972 "2011-08-08T18:29:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/181 "2011-08-11T15:06:58Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Ah, more proof of my theory that becoming a mother makes huge inconsiderate bitches of women… > > You mean asking for a cite? No, I really know next to nothing about it since it wasn’t done by my mother when I was growing up, I didn’t have children and I know very few mothers. I hear in passing that breastfeeding is supposed to make all babies healthier and all that, yet I know scores if not hundreds of people who didn’t grow up being breastfed and yet didn’t have to go to the hospital. If mother of the year up there wasn’t having a screaming fit because I dared to question her decisions, she might use the opportunity to provide real cites, instead of one link to AOL. > > Whatever. Someday I’ll learn that I can’t say anything about children, even in IMHO, without people losing their shit. God knows I’ll never be able to form a positive image of parenthood in here… You’re stupid and lazy. The cite I posted was about a study in _Pediatrics_. _Pediatrics_ is the publication of the American Academy of Pediatrics. The AAP represents 60,000 pediatricians. [Here’s](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2010/04/05/peds.2009-1616.abstract) the study the article referenced. If you can’t master basic reading comprehension methods then consider another hobby. Your problem isn’t that you question people’s parenting decisions. Your problem is that you do in the most ignorant way possible. Just because YOU don’t know someone who did something does not mean it did not happen. ---
**Author:** ![otternell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecc23a/32.png) [@otternell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/otternell)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/182 "2011-08-11T15:07:38Z")
And yet another interesting thread derailed by the cc show. If this was a theater, I’d demand my money back. I came here to read a thread about the fit being pitched about paying for contraception (and other items) and the ridiculous comparison to mani’s and pedi’s. How can we get this back on track? Unfortunately, everyone’s outrage is being wasted on trying to educate the ineducable. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/183 "2011-08-11T16:06:38Z")
> [@otternell](#): > > And yet another interesting thread derailed by the cc show. If this was a theater, I’d demand my money back. I came here to read a thread about the fit being pitched about paying for contraception (and other items) and the ridiculous comparison to mani’s and pedi’s. How can we get this back on track? Unfortunately, everyone’s outrage is being wasted on trying to educate the ineducable. Well, if it’s any consolation, I feel like Sandy Rios and anyone who holds a position similar to hers are a bunch of sexist doucehbags who deserve the worst. She is a vile human being for even _thinking_ about the words she spewed forth on TV. It especially irks me when it’s other women saying bullshit like this to women. I get it, though. The value of so many women has been determined by their virtuous and chaste behavior. If sex isn’t a problem, and chastity isn’t a valuable commodity, then these women have nothing left in their life but a series of missed opportunities. Does that help? ---
**Author:** ![otternell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecc23a/32.png) [@otternell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/otternell)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/184 "2011-08-11T16:17:05Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > \ > Does that help? Yes, thank you! 😉 The comparison to mani’s and pedi’s is what burns my ass the most. I’m on birth control because I have chosen not to have children, and yes it is preventative medicine. Its preventing a medical condition that I do not wish to have. Its preventing a medical condition that changes my body in very fundamental ways. I’m just so sick of this focus on whether women have children. Its no one’s business but mine and I’m sick of these “small gov’t” conservatives who want gov’t to be small enough to see into my uterus. I can’t remember who it was, but I think it was FL, were the state congressman said something about having his wife incorporate her uterus so that the gov’t wouldn’t want to regulate it. ETA: oh yeah - breast pumps too. I’ll defer to the people who have experience in these matters. ahem. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/185 "2011-08-11T16:22:51Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > … The value of so many women has been determined by their virtuous and chaste behavior. If sex isn’t a problem, and chastity isn’t a valuable commodity, then these women have nothing left in their life but a series of missed opportunities. > > Does that help? Yes, yes it does. 🙂 The part I quoted, however … Holy smokes. :eek: Well-written, well-thought-out … and also, one of the most depressing thoughts I’ll have today. (I hope!) It’s a good perspective on the situation, but _dayum._ ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/186 "2011-08-11T16:30:30Z")
> [@otternell](#): > > Yes, thank you! 😉 > > The comparison to mani’s and pedi’s is what burns my ass the most. SNIP > > I’m just so sick of this focus on whether women have children. Its no one’s business but mine and I’m sick of these “small gov’t” conservatives who want gov’t to be small enough to see into my uterus. I can’t remember who it was, but I think it was FL, were the state congressman said something about having his wife incorporate her uterus so that the gov’t wouldn’t want to regulate it. > > ETA: oh yeah - breast pumps too. I’ll defer to the people who have experience in these matters. ahem. When I read the mani/pedi thing originally and was discussing it with a friend, I said, “Well, really, when you think about it: if the government is paying for all our slut pills and nail care, can you even _imagine_ how many abortions we’ll be able to afford now?! Late term ones, too!” 😉 Obviously joking, but the poor logic of the other side should just be refuted by the rest of us with equally ridiculous retorts, imho. Nothing enrages me more than an old white man trying to tell me what I can and can’t do with my body (so, most times this is discussed amongst politicians). But when a woman is the one saying those things? That just makes me incredibly sad. Sad that our country even has to have those discussions, but sad for the woman who is saying it, too. Also: **purplehorseshoe** , thanks. In fairness, that’s actually something my roomie said a while back while we were discussing this matter and it just struck me as a perfect explanation for this prevailing attitude among conservative women. Why else would you stick so stringently to an ideology that is directly harmful to you and yours? Well, because your miserable life was for nothing. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/187 "2011-08-11T16:52:22Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Also: **purplehorseshoe** , thanks. In fairness, that’s actually something my roomie said a while back while we were discussing this matter and it just struck me as a perfect explanation for this prevailing attitude among conservative women. Why else would you stick so stringently to an ideology that is directly harmful to you and yours? Well, because your miserable life was for nothing. I think nowadays there’s also a perception that there are plenty of people and groups willing to fund this type of cultural and/or fiscal conservative moralizing. There is always going to be a subset of the population who are ambitious and grasping enough to involve themselves in this type of advocacy, even if it involves speaking ridiculous nonsense. I particularly despise college-aged people who see a potential career in it, the James O’Keefes and Hannah Giles of the world. These people are douchebags. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/188 "2011-08-11T19:54:29Z")
> [@otternell](#): > > I can’t remember who it was, but I think it was FL, were the state congressman said something about having his wife incorporate her uterus so that the gov’t wouldn’t want to regulate it. Yes! FL State legislature. Damn near the only good thing to be proud of as a Floridian these days. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/189 "2011-08-11T20:06:08Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > … Nothing enrages me more than an old white man trying to tell me what I can and can’t do with my body (so, most times this is discussed amongst politicians)… You’re welcome, but why did you bring race into this? It’s not like I want the Obamas telling me what to do with my uterus either. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/190 "2011-08-12T02:46:46Z")
> [@Girl\_From\_Mars](#): > > Out of interest, do you know how often a newborn baby needs to be fed? Were you aware that it is often unpredictable when the child will need another feed, particularly if they are going through a growth spurt? These things make it very difficult to plan to always be back at home at the right time, particularly if you have several things you need to do during the day. That part doesn’t seem to have anything to do with what I said. Yes, I know that newborns need to be fed frequently…? > [@](#): > > And the vast majority of people I know who breastfed were pretty self-conscious about exposing themselves in public (seriously, you think as soon as we become mums we all want to whip our boobs out for the general public to ogle at? Seriously?) Perhaps most are like that. OTOH, it only takes a small minority to create a bad image. > [@DianaG](#): > > Nursing in public is not rude, any more than eating is. Humanity in general is under no obligation to accommodate your peculiarly backward and prudish preferences. You are aware that there are quite a few people out there that really don’t want to see a nursing mothers boobs, right? Even men don’t seem to like it much. Also, you are aware I’m talking about those mothers who are, uh, casual about covering up? > [@](#): > > Formula is already taxpayer subsidized. I guess I should have figured that out. > [@](#): > > Cultural shifts have nothing to do with parenting decisions? Cultural shifts since the 1950’s have nothing to do with whether or not it is rude to sit around in public displaying a baby attached to your engorged tit. > [@Indygrrl](#): > > Really? You aren’t aware that we have high rates of heart disease and cancer in the western world? So, no, those people may not show up at the hospital and say, “I think I may have developed this because I wasn’t breastfed,” but that doesn’t mean it didn’t play a part. Really? You are claiming that breastfeeding reduces or eliminates heart disease and cancer? > [@](#): > > But if you are seriously in doubt about the health benefits All I seriously doubt is that it is _that_ much better than feeding formula. I haven’t looked at much in the way of information and no studies because, you know, I won’t need to breastfeed, but what I have seen seems to indicate that any baby not BF will end up sickly, and that just isn’t true. Plus I don’t know how they can make some of the claims, like fewer infections, high intelligence, less obesity, less diabetes when so many other factors would affect those things and there doesn’t seem to be a rise in any of that to match the rise in mothers BF. Again, I don’t care if anyone wants to BF - shoot, I don’t even feed my pets commercial food so it isn’t like I trust all prepared food or something. It just seems to be another fad that will fade away if studies show that it isn’t actually significantly better than formula, and yet another thing for mothers to demand that society provide for them. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/191 "2011-08-12T03:02:39Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t know if its the hardest job on earth but its a lot harder than most jobs I have had. I found raising my last two brothers, the very last one almost from birth, to be far easier than some jobs I’ve done. OTOH, back then it wasn’t fashionable to take kids everywhere so almost all of the kid care was at home. > [@](#): > > You seem to be sugegsting that a mother can put her kid to bed for a nap and then leave the kid alone so she can go shopping. No, I’m kind of hoping there is a spouse available to sit with the kids, or the baby can be fed right prior to going to the grocery store. Thinking ahead and having a little consideration for those around them. > [@](#): > > For a lot of women, goign right back to work is necessary, they may not have paid maternal elave. How common is it tho? Every full time job I’ve ever had provided maternity leave (until they finally realized how unfair that was and started calling it PTO) but then I worked for insurance companies… > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Sure some women become total fucking bitches when they become mothers but most women don’t. I had a friend who insisted that the whole world revolve around her daughter but she grew out of it when her daughter started going to school. Other women start off as bitches and become really pleasant people when they have kids. Just like the BF in public thing, it doesn’t take many bitches on wheels to make an impact. However, I was speaking more along the lines of the demands that are being made out there - Mommy & Me parking spots, employers providing a separate place to pump, more and more paid maternity leave, subsidized daycare, etc, etc. > [@otternell](#): > > And yet another interesting thread derailed by the cc show. If this was a theater, I’d demand my money back. I came here to read a thread about the fit being pitched about paying for contraception (and other items) and the ridiculous comparison to mani’s and pedi’s. How can we get this back on track? Unfortunately, everyone’s outrage is being wasted on trying to educate the ineducable. Ya know, instead of bitching because something isn’t going to your liking you could - oh, I don’t know - make a post on something that interests you? If nothing else, there are obviously enough people here who are interested in answering my questions that you are outnumbered. Why don’t you take your whine down the hall where someone might care? ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/192 "2011-08-12T06:44:37Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > You are aware that there are quite a few people out there that really don’t want to see a nursing mothers boobs, right? Even men don’t seem to like it much. Also, you are aware I’m talking about those mothers who are, uh, casual about covering up? I always find it funny when people act like nursing mothers are commonly known to flop their breasts out and make a big show of it, when in reality, the vast majority of the time you’d never know a woman was breastfeeding unless you were really watching and paying close attention. The boob flashing issue is the red herring of the breastfeeding debate. Every state (that I’m aware of) gives women the right to breastfeed in public, regardless of what you, or anyone “wants to see.” As with anything else, if you don’t like it, feel free to look the other way. I guarantee the nursing mother is not looking for an audience. > [@](#): > > Really? You are claiming that breastfeeding reduces or eliminates heart disease and cancer? I’m saying that your silly statement about all the people you know who were bottle fed growing up to be just fine is a ridiculous argument. We have ridiculously high rates of heart disease and cancer, and there have been studies that show that breastfeeding absolutely can play a role in preventing disease (for baby AND mother). Of course, for you to get that info you’d actually have to read the provided sources. > [@](#): > > All I seriously doubt is that it is _that_ much better than feeding formula. I haven’t looked at much in the way of information and no studies because, you know, I won’t need to breastfeed How do you sit here and say you doubt these studies and cites if you haven’t even read them? I gave links to the information, and even quoted some of it in my post because I figured even though you asked for a cite you probably wouldn’t bother to read it. If I thought you would actually read them, I’d happily provide even more cites, but you’ve made it clear you have no interest in anything but spouting off like an ignorant ass. If you don’t need the info because you won’t need to breastfeed, then quit spouting ignorant opinions and misinformation. > [@](#): > > what I have seen seems to indicate that any baby not BF will end up sickly, and that just isn’t true. Plus I don’t know how they can make some of the claims, like fewer infections, high intelligence, less obesity, less diabetes when so many other factors would affect those things and there doesn’t seem to be a rise in any of that to match the rise in mothers BF. What have you seen??? Certainly not the cites that have been provided here. And of course you don’t know how they can make the claims–THAT WOULD REQUIRE READING THE FUCKING CITES. > [@](#): > > It just seems to be another fad that will fade away if studies show that it isn’t actually significantly better than formula, and yet another thing for mothers to demand that society provide for them. You really are an idiot, aren’t you? Lol, yeah, breastfeeding is a fad…that’s too silly a statement to even argue over. But you have touched on one thing, it IS appropriate for society to support mothers in whatever way they choose to feed their babies. Like it or not, mothers (and fathers) play an enormous role in the world and when they do their parenting job well, it benefits everyone. And that role begins with how they feed their babies. You might not see the value in respecting and supporting that, but fortunately a lot of other people do. It seems like a no brainer to me, but then I’m a compassionate human being…and a mother.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/193 "2011-08-12T07:16:15Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I found raising my last two brothers, the very last one almost from birth, to be far easier than some jobs I’ve done. OTOH, back then it wasn’t fashionable to take kids everywhere so almost all of the kid care was at home. I’m gonna call bullshit on that. You expect us to believe you raised two boys, one from birth, staying at home full time taking care of them until they were grown? No one who did that would have the blase attitudes about parenting that you seem to. People who have raised kids know how fucking hard it is, and certainly wouldn’t make light of the hardships other parents go through. > [@](#): > > No, I’m kind of hoping there is a spouse available to sit with the kids, or the baby can be fed right prior to going to the grocery store. Thinking ahead and having a little consideration for those around them. Believe it or not, a lot of mothers don’t want to leave their baby at home, and why should they? Most people don’t find someone bringing their baby into a grocery store a big deal at all. And when you are breastfeeding a very young baby, it doesn’t always just work that you can feed him before leaving and that’s that. Only a mother can decide whether or not that’s appropriate and/or whether she wants to leave the baby at home. > [@](#): > > How common is it tho? Every full time job I’ve ever had provided maternity leave (until they finally realized how unfair that was and started calling it PTO) but then I worked for insurance companies… Maternity leave in the US is about six weeks, which is a ridiculously small amount of time for a new mama to be home with her baby. It doesn’t matter that for some reason you think it’s unfair for a woman to take off after having a baby, most people understand why it’s necessary. > [@](#): > > Just like the BF in public thing, it doesn’t take many bitches on wheels to make an impact. However, I was speaking more along the lines of the demands that are being made out there - Mommy & Me parking spots, employers providing a separate place to pump, more and more paid maternity leave, subsidized daycare, etc, etc. Oh yeah, those bitchy women wanting to feed their babies, what cunts.:rolleyes: Out of what you’ve said here, the only things that are actual “demands” are having a place to pump in the workplace, the six week maternity leave that I already addressed, and subsidized daycare for lower income people. To me, these are so basic they should be a given. How is it a hardship for a business to allow an empty office or breakroom to serve as an area for a woman to pump? Obviously that’s something that requires a bit of privacy, and it isn’t like it costs extra money to let women use a room for that. As for subsidized daycare, which from everything I’ve read, is pretty fucking minimal anyway. They can either help lower income women afford daycare so they can work, or it will be so expensive that she barely makes a profit by the end of the day. And if that’s the case she’s better off staying home with baby, which means she’ll need some other type of assistance. But I’m guessing you’re against that as well, because og forbid anyone get any kind of a break. Ever. > [@](#): > > Ya know, instead of bitching because something isn’t going to your liking you could - oh, I don’t know - make a post on something that interests you? If nothing else, there are obviously enough people here who are interested in answering my questions that you are outnumbered. Why don’t you take your whine down the hall where someone might care? I know that’s addressed to someone else, but it’s just so fucking funny to me that you’ll say that while sticking around this thread just to troll. All you’ve done is spout off ignorant opinions, and repeatedly make it clear that you have no interest in learning anything. Willfull ignorance only begins to describe your attitude… I bet you are super fun at parties.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/194 "2011-08-12T07:40:39Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > I always find it funny when people act like nursing mothers are commonly known to flop their breasts out and make a big show of it, when in reality, the vast majority of the time you’d never know a woman was breastfeeding unless you were really watching and paying close attention. The boob flashing issue is the red herring of the breastfeeding debate. I used to think it was funny when someone would just zoom right past what was actually said in order to be able to trot out some personal issue, but it’s happened so often now I just wonder about what our world is coming to. > [@](#): > > Every state (that I’m aware of) gives women the right to breastfeed in public, regardless of what you, or anyone “wants to see.” As with anything else, if you don’t like it, feel free to look the other way. I guarantee the nursing mother is not looking for an audience. Your guarantee means nothing in the face of everything else some mothers do to get attention. As for laws, I really doubt that the intent (and maybe the letter) of those laws is “mothers can strip down any time, any where they want”. > [@](#): > > I’m saying that your silly statement about all the people you know who were bottle fed growing up to be just fine is a ridiculous argument. We have ridiculously high rates of heart disease and cancer, and there have been studies that show that breastfeeding absolutely can play a role in preventing disease (for baby AND mother). Of course, for you to get that info you’d actually have to read the provided sources. Which I did and saw zero about heart disease and cancer. Besides, I was specifically addressing your list. > [@](#): > > How do you sit here and say you doubt these studies and cites if you haven’t even read them? What has been provided here qualifies as “not much in the way of information”. If I was having a baby and needed to make the decision about this, I’d be doing a lot more than reading articles on the internet that merely reference studies. > [@](#): > > If I thought you would actually read them, I’d happily provide even more cites, but you’ve made it clear you have no interest in anything but spouting off like an ignorant ass. Yeah, well, it would look that way to a zealot, wouldn’t it, me questioning the One Right Way? > [@](#): > > If you don’t need the info because you won’t need to breastfeed, then quit spouting ignorant opinions and misinformation. And I did this where? > [@](#): > > What have you seen??? Certainly not the cites that have been provided here. And of course you don’t know how they can make the claims–THAT WOULD REQUIRE READING THE FUCKING CITES. What have I seen??? I was responding to the information in YOUR POST! The cites YOU provided. Have you already forgotten that you claim that BF lowers the risk of fewer infections, high intelligence, less obesity, less diabetes? > [@](#): > > You really are an idiot, aren’t you? Lol, yeah, breastfeeding is a fad…that’s too silly a statement to even argue over. Well, since I cannot see into the future and neither can you, calling me an idiot for thinking it might end up a fad doesn’t reflect well on you does it? You have no idea what advances may come down the line, and since BF apparently requires quite a bit of time and effort from someone who already has a lot of calls on that, it could drop out of favor again. I wouldn’t worry tho - I’m sure you’ll be able to - ha ha - latch onto some other “mothers rights” issue to make up for it. > [@](#): > > But you have touched on one thing, it IS appropriate for society to support mothers in whatever way they choose to feed their babies. Like it or not, mothers (and fathers) play an enormous role in the world and when they do their parenting job well, it benefits everyone. And that role begins with how they feed their babies. You might not see the value in respecting and supporting that, but fortunately a lot of other people do. It seems like a no brainer to me, but then I’m a compassionate human being…and a mother.🙂 Yeah, well when you all start respecting those who don’t have children and quit trying to shove all of your “rights” down our throats, we might have an interest in your demands. But until that happens, I guess we’ll continue to give you the same respect that we give anyone else who tries to pretend that what they are doing is so unique and necessary that all these special rights are to be expected. Which of course is none at all. Seems like you all should be able to take care of those kids you said you wanted without all this extra help anyway. Besides, you are apparently only compassionate towards that agree with you… ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/195 "2011-08-12T07:59:47Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > I’m gonna call bullshit on that. You expect us to believe you raised two boys, one from birth, staying at home full time taking care of them until they were grown? No one who did that would have the blase attitudes about parenting that you seem to. People who have raised kids know how fucking hard it is, and certainly wouldn’t make light of the hardships other parents go through. Yeah, sure, because my experience doesn’t agree with yours, I must be bullshitting, eh? Sorry, raising kids is only as “fucking hard” is YOU make it. Besides, you could try actually responding to what I said instead of what you make up. > [@](#): > > Believe it or not, a lot of mothers don’t want to leave their baby at home, and why should they? Most people don’t find someone bringing their baby into a grocery store a big deal at all. And when you are breastfeeding a very young baby, it doesn’t always just work that you can feed him before leaving and that’s that. Only a mother can decide whether or not that’s appropriate and/or whether she wants to leave the baby at home. And yet, thousands of women in this city manage to do their shopping without dragging their babies along or without having to stop mid-shop to feed it. Wonder how they do it. > [@](#): > > Maternity leave in the US is about six weeks, which is a ridiculously small amount of time for a new mama to be home with her baby. It doesn’t matter that for some reason you think it’s unfair for a woman to take off after having a baby, most people understand why it’s necessary. Yes, most people are like you and think that because you have made the selfish choice to reproduce, you should be rewarded for some reason - I get that. Doesn’t mean its right. Besides, again, you are just flying right over what I said so you can rant on about your personal hot buttons. I asked how common it was the women have to go right back to work, not what the minimum maternity leave is. You do know that many companies give more, right? The last place I worked at gave up to six months (for C sections) and we weren’t anything like executives. > [@](#): > > Out of what you’ve said here, the only things that are actual “demands” are having a place to pump in the workplace, the six week maternity leave that I already addressed, and subsidized daycare for lower income people. To me, these are so basic they should be a given. How is it a hardship for a business to allow an empty office or breakroom to serve as an area for a woman to pump? Obviously that’s something that requires a bit of privacy, and it isn’t like it costs extra money to let women use a room for that. Obviously, you haven’t been paying attention to your fellow mommies. The last two places I worked at, for a total of 18 years, the demand for subsidized daycare on site came up regularly. Why the hell others should have to pay for daycare for children they have nothing to do with is beyond me but of course you’ll most likely trot out that tired old argument about how it’s better for the children or something. As for your pumping room, I don’t know where you work but where I did, we didn’t have much in the way of empty offices or breakrooms. If nothing else, it doesn’t make much sense for a business to pay rent on areas they aren’t using, not that I’ve ever seen an unused breakroom. So, in some if not most companies, you are demanding that they pay to provide a space that only a small fraction of their employees will use. > [@](#): > > As for subsidized daycare, which from everything I’ve read, is pretty fucking minimal anyway. They can either help lower income women afford daycare so they can work, or it will be so expensive that she barely makes a profit by the end of the day. And if that’s the case she’s better off staying home with baby, which means she’ll need some other type of assistance. But I’m guessing you’re against that as well, because og forbid anyone get any kind of a break. Ever. Yeah right. No one should ever get a break because I think that people who can’t afford to raise kids shouldn’t be having them. Those things sure do go together! > [@](#): > > I know that’s addressed to someone else, but it’s just so fucking funny to me that you’ll say that while sticking around this thread just to troll. All you’ve done is spout off ignorant opinions, and repeatedly make it clear that you have no interest in learning anything. Willfull ignorance only begins to describe your attitude… I bet you are super fun at parties.:rolleyes: Naw, at this point I stick around this thread to take pokes at people like you, the high and mighty know it all mommy. As for fun at parties, well I’m not the one making demands or insisting everyone bow to my ability to reproduce… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Bird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Little\_Bird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Bird)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/196 "2011-08-12T12:41:14Z")
I’m a little disappointed by the bill. I am squirting out a spawn of my own this October and thought I could get an insurance-provided breast pump, but it turns out the bill doesn’t come into effect until next August. ☹ Oh wells, hopefully I can get my Mirena replaced for “free” next year! ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/197 "2011-08-12T13:25:49Z")
Seriously, why do people still engage curlcoat? She’s incapable of learning. ---
**Author:** ![MegaBee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@MegaBee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MegaBee)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/198 "2011-08-12T14:25:40Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > Seriously, why do people still engage curlcoat? She’s incapable of learning. For the lulz? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/199 "2011-08-12T14:56:16Z")
> [@cards](#): > > Really cite. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/200 "2011-08-12T15:05:48Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I asked how common it was the women have to go right back to work, not what the minimum maternity leave is. You do know that many companies give more, right? The last place I worked at gave up to six months (for C sections) and we weren’t anything like executives. Was this paid leave or not? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972.md?page=11)