# Birth control, breast pumps, counseling for abuse? Are we going to do pedicures & manicures as well? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972 "2011-08-08T18:29:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/221 "2011-08-12T22:07:18Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Look, I also don’t have or want kids, but even I am not this dumb when it comes to how breast feeding works. Do you even have any female friends with children? > > A woman can pump on her lunch break or a bathroom break, then stick that shit in a fridge. She doesn’t have to immediately get the milk from teat to baby’s mouth or anything. I’m sure the mother doesn’t live at her job, so she can just take it home with her at the end of her work day and stick it in the fridge there. Got lots of female relatives and friends with kids. In fact two of my sister-in-laws currently have infants. The first is in Pristinia, former Yugoslavia right now. Please explain how her pumping on her lunch or bathroom break and extreme air mailing breast milk packed in dry ice could possibly be cheaper than formula? With formula the mother can go where she need to be and is not tied to the baby. 2nd sister-in-law uses formula because she finds pumping costs her more in stopping work than formula could ever cost and she likes a good beer on a hot day. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/222 "2011-08-12T22:12:07Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Got lots of female relatives and friends with kids. In fact two of my sister-in-laws currently have infants. The first is in Pristinia, former Yugoslavia right now. Please explain how her pumping on her lunch or bathroom break and extreme air mailing breast milk packed in dry ice could possibly be cheaper than formula? With formula the mother can go where she need to be and is not tied to the baby. 2nd sister-in-law uses formula because she finds pumping costs her more in stopping work than formula could ever cost and she likes a good beer on a hot day. Ah yes. A woman who is on a different continent from her child is totally the typical situation in which a mother is working away from her baby. Golly, what was I thinking? Either you’re intentionally being obtuse here or you’re just a fucking idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/223 "2011-08-12T22:13:01Z")
Why would they have to airmail the milk on dry ice? It’s just milk, it’s not a donor kidney. You can keep it in the fridge. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/224 "2011-08-12T22:13:51Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > These are ludicrous objections. First off, the mother doesn’t have to immediately transport the milk the second it’s pumped (and it doesn’t take that much time from work, by the way. It can be done on a lunch break), it’s pumped and stored in bottles, and (if all goes well), the mom can keep enough bottles stockpiled for the caregiver to keep the little tyke fed during the day. I speak from personal experience here. Formula would have cost us in the thousands of dollars over time. A breast pump cots us a couple of hundred bucks and lasted through three babies. _Breastfeeding is cheaper than formula_. Even if you can contrive some convoluted scenario by which breast feeding would somehow cost money beyond the cost of a pump, you would be coming up with a goofy (probably non-existent in real life) anomalous situation, nothing typical. In terms of real expense for real moms, it’s not even close. It requires no convoluted scenario to imagine that a woman who is able to devote herself to her job without the distraction of providing milk for an infant (unless her job is being a wet nurse) will out earn a woman who is taking time away from her job and limiting her mobility by being a milk producer. ---
**Author:** ![Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4bbf92/32.png) [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heart_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/225 "2011-08-12T22:14:34Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Got lots of female relatives and friends with kids. In fact two of my sister-in-laws currently have infants. The first is in Pristinia, former Yugoslavia right now. Please explain how her pumping on her lunch or bathroom break and extreme air mailing breast milk packed in dry ice could possibly be cheaper than formula? With formula the mother can go where she need to be and is not tied to the baby. 2nd sister-in-law uses formula because she finds pumping costs her more in stopping work than formula could ever cost and she likes a good beer on a hot day. Oh my jesus. Yeah, having to airmail your breastmilk to your baby is not something most moms have to worry about. And I have no idea what kind of job your other sister-in-law has, in which she’s apparently paid by the minute and can’t do it while hooked up to a pump, but again, not a problem for most. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/226 "2011-08-12T22:16:35Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > It requires no convoluted scenario to imagine that a woman who is able to devote herself to her job without the distraction of providing milk for an infant (unless her job is being a wet nurse) will out earn a woman who is taking time away from her job and limiting her mobility by being a milk producer. You have a very distorted idea of how much time it takes from work. And FYI, employers are required by law in the US to give nursing moms time (and a space) to pump. It is illegal for employers to dock them pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/227 "2011-08-12T22:17:20Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Why would they have to airmail the milk on dry ice? It’s just milk, it’s not a donor kidney. You can keep it in the fridge. Because the generator that powers the refrigerators frequently breaks down (which means the refrigerators are down) or the fuel to power the generators gets stolen which also means the refrigerators are down. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/228 "2011-08-12T22:18:30Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Because the generator that powers the refrigerators frequently breaks down (which means the refrigerators are down) or the fuel to power the generators gets stolen which also means the refrigerators are down. Again, obviously you are presenting the typical scenario for the average American mother. I mean, it’d be silly for you to bring up someone on another continent, since the comments we were discussing were about an _AMERICAN law_. So yes, you must be on topic here and I’m just not getting it. Actually, can we all just go back to bitching about how vile Sandy Rios is? Because all of us sitting here bickering about the pros and cons of breast feeding sort of are taking away from the real rant here: that there’s a legitimate anti- woman subset of our country (and fuck, apparently this thread) and that’s the type of bullshit that should make us all rage like a volcano. Thank you in advance. Etc etc etc ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/229 "2011-08-12T22:21:03Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You have a very distorted idea of how much time it takes from work. > > And FYI, employers are required by law in the US to give nursing moms time (and a space) to pump. It is illegal for employers to dock them pay for it. Doesn’t mean it will not be remembered and can reflect in promotions, bonuses, layoffs, etc. If the employer has a choice between two equally qualified indivduals one is a nursing mother that will require time off to pump, plus a place to pump and store milk and the another who will not require any such accommodation, who do you think will be considered the better employee? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/230 "2011-08-12T22:24:50Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Because the generator that powers the refrigerators frequently breaks down (which means the refrigerators are down) or the fuel to power the generators gets stolen which also means the refrigerators are down. My wife had a special little cooler bag which used little plastic ice packs that were frozen overnight. It cost about the same as a can of formula. ---
**Author:** ![Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4bbf92/32.png) [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heart_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/231 "2011-08-12T22:25:01Z")
Yep, sorry. She’s really got a knack for derailing, doesn’t she? But yes, Sandy Rios and her ilk suck ass. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/232 "2011-08-12T22:26:43Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Again, obviously you are presenting the typical scenario for the average American mother. I mean, it’d be silly for you to bring up someone on another continent, since the comments we were discussing were about an _AMERICAN law_. So yes, you must be on topic here and I’m just not getting it. > > Actually, can we all just go back to bitching about how vile Sandy Rios is? Because all of us sitting here bickering about the pros and cons of breast feeding sort of are taking away from the real rant here: that there’s a legitimate anti- woman subset of our country (and fuck, apparently this thread) and that’s the type of bullshit that should make us all rage like a volcano. > > Thank you in advance. Etc etc etc I’ve been on plenty of jobs in the good, old USA where there were no refrigerators on site, especially in my college student will-take-anything-that-pays days. Usually it was just because the employer didn’t care to buy one. Though in one case the refrigerators had been removed and we were forbidden to eat on the premises because the employer got sick of the battles between various religious/ethnical groups over pure and impure foods and their possible contamination. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/233 "2011-08-12T22:27:05Z")
I have one of [these](http://www.simplewishes.com/). I can type and pump at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/234 "2011-08-12T22:29:20Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > My wife had a special little cooler bag which used little plastic ice packs that were frozen overnight. It cost about the same as a can of formula. I still doubt even with the little cooler bag it would be cheaper for my sister-in-law to fly her breast milk in for her baby than rely on formula which any member of the family can safely prepare and feed to the child. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/235 "2011-08-12T22:30:46Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Doesn’t mean it will not be remembered and can reflect in promotions, bonuses, layoffs, etc. If the employer has a choice between two equally qualified indivduals one is a nursing mother that will require time off to pump, plus a place to pump and store milk and the another who will not require any such accommodation, who do you think will be considered the better employee? Women do not require “time off” to pump, and many of those employers are, themselves, women who are or have been nursing mothers. The time it takes to pump is negligible, does not affect job performance, and is only temporary. Incidentally, businesses don’t have to build special pump rooms or anything, they just designate some kind of little private space somewhere (it just can’t be a bathroom). It’s no hardship on the employer, and they are not required to provide a place for storage. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/236 "2011-08-12T22:32:17Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I still doubt even with the little cooler bag it would be cheaper for my sister-in-law to fly her breast milk in for her baby than rely on formula which any member of the family can safely prepare and feed to the child. If the mother lives in a different country from the baby, then by all means use formula. That is obviously not the kind of scenario we’re discussing, though. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/237 "2011-08-12T22:36:52Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I still doubt even with the little cooler bag it would be cheaper for my sister-in-law to fly her breast milk in for her baby than rely on formula which any member of the family can safely prepare and feed to the child. Do you understand that your sister in law is _not the average **American** mother?_ Yes, right? Ok good. Now that we’re all in agreement, you can stop derailing my thread now. Kthxbai and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/238 "2011-08-12T22:44:19Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I still doubt even with the little cooler bag it would be cheaper for my sister-in-law to fly her breast milk in for her baby than rely on formula which any member of the family can safely prepare and feed to the child. Your sister’s experience is not typical. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/239 "2011-08-12T22:58:51Z")
Let us agree that if a mother doesn’t live in the same city as her infant, or doesn’t have access to a reliable refrigerator either at home or at work, formula may be cheaper than breast pumping and transporting/storing the milk. Breastfeeding is substantially more healthy for an infant. Assuming the conditions above are not a factor, breastfeeding is substantially cheaper than formula. Anybody have a gripe with this? ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/240 "2011-08-12T23:47:52Z")
It’s just wild to me that ZPG is going on about how expensive and difficult it is to breastfeed, as if someone is forcing women to do it. If you want to formula-feed, bully for you. But breastfeeding is quite convenient and economical for the countless women who do choose it. Yeah, it takes education and practice, and it isn’t something all women feel comortable with, but it’s free and the best thing you can feed a baby. There are still tons of women who choose to bottle feed, for whatever reason, and they don’t seem to get any more flak than breastfeeding moms, so the choice is yours. Either way, you’re going to hear someone disparaging your choice, so you might as well do what you want. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972.md?page=13)