# Birth control, breast pumps, counseling for abuse? Are we going to do pedicures & manicures as well? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972 "2011-08-08T18:29:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/241 "2011-08-12T23:48:17Z")
Oh my God. This is fucking bizarro-world here now. Yes, certainly, let’s assume that those of us who have pumped milk, nursed babies, or fed babies milk pumped by the baby’s mom could not _possibly_ have any salient points to make about the experiences of pumping, nursing, feeding, or otherwise caring for babies; the convenience and cost thereof; the disruption or lack thereof to a woman’s work day; or any of a number of issues pertaining to being a working parent. Instead, let’s let **curlcoat** and \*\*ZPGZealot \*\*tell us how it really is. ::dies a little inside:: ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/242 "2011-08-12T23:55:57Z")
> [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > But yes, Sandy Rios and her ilk suck ass. Funny. I was about to say the same of people who wants things for free (or on someone else’s dime). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/243 "2011-08-13T00:10:06Z")
This is a thread about insurance coverage, not about Halliburton. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/244 "2011-08-13T00:28:27Z")
Well, we’ve got two of the three resident batcrap crazies in attendance. If we could just get **Susanann** in here, we might generate an infinite feedback loop where they all talk to each other and the thread becomes a containment unit. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/245 "2011-08-13T00:36:27Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Actually, I think people are over-stating how horrible formula is: it’s certainly not ideal, but it’s not “shit” and women who have to use formula (including adoptive mothers, those with low supply, and people who live lifestyles where it really is not feasible) are not dooming their children to a substandard life. The long-term impacts of formula vs breastmilk are simply not that clear cut. There’s no need to be hyperbolic (and, frankly, hurtful and alarmist to those women who really could not breastfeed) in response to idiocy. You don’t have to make formula feeding tantamount to child abuse in response to Curlcoat’s own vehemence. > > However, if the point of this bill is to reduce health care costs, the one thing we do absolutely know breast milk is better at is providing antibodies that reduce the number of infections in those first six-twelve months. Those diseases lead to costly ER trips and doctor’s visits. So I think it’s a very good law. Thank you. Formula is not “shit,” and I assure everyone that you can feed a baby formula from birth and they will do far better than “maybe turning out ok.” There are many many things Curlcoat doesn’t understand about life. Don’t demonize formula because she doesn’t know jackshit about babies and breastfeeding. The fact of the matter is, Curlcoat, that I paid about $200 for my breast pump, and it probably saved me over $1000 in formula just for one baby alone. It’s crazy not to do it if you possibly can, and a breast pump is an excellent investment. ---
**Author:** ![moejoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@moejoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moejoe)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/246 "2011-08-13T01:01:05Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Incidentally, businesses don’t have to build special pump rooms or anything, they just designate some kind of little private space somewhere (it just can’t be a bathroom). It’s no hardship on the employer, and they are not required to provide a place for storage. Where I work that little private space is my office. My currently nursing coworker (2nd baby) came down about three times per day for the first 6 months, each visit lasted about 15 minutes and she was still just as awesomely excellent at her job as she’d always been. Now that the baby is nearing his first birthday she’s down to just one pumping break per day and it makes us all a little misty just thinking about when she weans him. I don’t know what her copay was for the pump, but I’d be thrilled if it was 100% covered. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/247 "2011-08-13T01:03:07Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This is a thread about insurance coverage, not about Halliburton. I was talking about insurance coverage (and I use that term begrudgingly). What were you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/248 "2011-08-13T01:13:03Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Funny. I was about to say the same of people who wants things for free (or on someone else’s dime). This IS on their own dime, and applies to people with insurance coverage. Rest assured, you little sadistic psycho, they will be paying for it with higher premiums, but the immediate barrier to access (copays) will be removed. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/249 "2011-08-13T01:21:04Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I was talking about insurance coverage (and I use that term begrudgingly). What have you got against people making insurance claims? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/250 "2011-08-13T01:21:54Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I was talking about insurance coverage (and I use that term begrudgingly). What were you talking about? Maybe you weren’t aware of this, but insurance isn’t free. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/251 "2011-08-13T01:22:39Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > This IS on their own dime, and applies to people with insurance coverage. Rest assured, you little sadistic psycho, they will be paying for it with higher premiums, but the immediate barrier to access (copays) will be removed. I already responded to this. It won’t be on those women’s “own dime”; it will be on the dime of everyone in the form of higher premiums. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Maybe you weren’t aware of this, but insurance isn’t free. Not free, because it’ll be on someone else’s dime-- especially if you’re one of those wonderful women who will receive insurance coverage without paying out-of-pocket because you fall below a certain income level. …But, yeah. No copays means insurance companies will spread that cost to everyone who buys that insurance plan, which means higher premiums. Do you want to argue otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![OneMissedPost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@OneMissedPost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneMissedPost)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/252 "2011-08-13T01:24:34Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > It’s just wild to me that ZPG is going on about how expensive and difficult it is to breastfeed, as if someone is forcing women to do it. If you want to formula-feed, bully for you. But breastfeeding is quite convenient and economical for the countless women who do choose it. Yeah, it takes education and practice, and it isn’t something all women feel comortable with, but it’s free and the best thing you can feed a baby. > > There are still tons of women who choose to bottle feed, for whatever reason, and they don’t seem to get any more flak than breastfeeding moms, so the choice is yours. Either way, you’re going to hear someone disparaging your choice, so you might as well do what you want. I agree with you on all points. If you prefer formula, fine. If you prefer to breastfeed, fine. Do what you want. I don’t really think we need people with little to no experience/knowledge about breastfeeding or formulas tell us all there is to know about it. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/253 "2011-08-13T01:33:17Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > …But, yeah. No copays means insurance companies will spread that cost to everyone who buys that insurance plan, which means higher premiums. Do you want to argue otherwise? This is how insurance _works_. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/254 "2011-08-13T01:38:36Z")
> [@lorene](#): > > Was this paid leave or not? Paid, with guarantee of a job when they got back. I _think_ it was only three months for a non C-section leave, but I’m not sure - I just remember the six months because I’d had loved to have six months paid leave after any of my big life events. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Oh, honey, I’m sure you were a huge help, but unless you were orphaned and had to take care of your brothers on your own, its not really the same thing. Which, of course, I didn’t say. > [@](#): > > If the spouse was available, they can go shopping. The better suggestion would probably have been to say, “hey your baby can drink formula every once in a while. like when your baby need to feed while you are in the produce section of the supermarket” Apparently, feeding the kids formula is evil to most of the mommies in here. But yeah, that would require planning ahead and consideration of those around them as well. > [@](#): > > The federal government does not provide paid maternity leave, Wal Mart does not provide paid maternity leave, most small businesses do not provide paid maternity leave. Paid maternity leave is an employee benefit. So, what is this six weeks? I’m not the one that brought that up. > [@](#): > > Of the things that you listed, the only thing folks are ReQUIRED to do is provide a place where women can pump their breasts (usually a nurse’s station in large offices (I don’t think small businesses are subject to this rule). The rest if done by the business at its own discretion because it is in its own best interest. Well, of course most of those aren’t required (yet) - if they were, why would the mommies be demanding them? Duh. > [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > The curlcoat claimed, long ago, that she doesn’t cook. Because her parents didn’t teach her. > > So–how did she “raise” her brothers? Kids usually need to be fed. There is a big difference between cooking and making sandwiches, soup, etc. That sort of thing I can do - I can even make a decent breakfast. > [@lorene](#): > > You know what? They make car-lighter adapaters for electric breast pumps for when you can’t be near a plug. I could list all of the remote corners of public parking lots where I ended up using my breast pump (while covered with a blanket, mind you), but I think **curlcoat** would probably tell me I should save those parking spaces for someone who wasn’t asking the world to drop at her feet just because she had a baby. If you are going around making demands on society because you decided you wanted a baby, then you should just drop off the face of the earth. If, however, you managed to make that choice without deciding you are the most special person in the world that every one should bow to, I don’t really care what you do. Unfortunately, most mommies don’t seem to be able to see a difference between those two. > [@Sarahfeena](#): > > There are many many things Curlcoat doesn’t understand about life. Don’t demonize formula because she doesn’t know jackshit about babies and breastfeeding. The fact of the matter is, Curlcoat, that I paid about $200 for my breast pump, and it probably saved me over $1000 in formula just for one baby alone. It’s crazy not to do it if you possibly can, and a breast pump is an excellent investment. And, you won’t find anything in here that even indicates that I think otherwise. > [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > This IS on their own dime, and applies to people with insurance coverage. Rest assured, you little sadistic psycho, they will be paying for it with higher premiums, but the immediate barrier to access (copays) will be removed. Everyone will be paying for it with higher premiums, but in the whole scheme of things, breast pumps are a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of actually having the baby. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/255 "2011-08-13T01:45:38Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I already responded to this. It won’t be on those women’s “own dime”; it will be on the dime of everyone in the form of higher premiums. Well, so’s the Cyclobenzaprine I get when I throw my back out. But in the long run, that script keeps me mobile and helps me heal whereas without it I might eventually require surgery which cost a lot more money. What’s your point? And I don’t think anyone here is demonizing formula or formula feeding as much as trying to normalize breastfeeding to a certain few posters who are all like “Fucking breastmilk. How does it work?” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/256 "2011-08-13T01:46:20Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Not free, because it’ll be on someone else’s dime. No, it’s only on the customer’s dime. You don’t have to pay anyone else’s premiums. It’s actually kind of none of your business what’s in someone else’s plan. > [@](#): > > …But, yeah. No copays means insurance companies will spread that cost to everyone who buys that insurance plan, which means higher premiums. Do you want to argue otherwise? It actually lowers costs in the long run. Not as much as UHC would, though. I agree that the insurance companies are fucked up, but it’s all we’ve got until we decide to join the 21st Century like the rest of the civilized world. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/257 "2011-08-13T01:46:38Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I already responded to this. It won’t be on those women’s “own dime”; it will be on the dime of everyone in the form of higher premiums. You clearly don’t understand how insurance works. > [@](#): > > Not free, because it’ll be on someone else’s dime-- especially if you’re one of those wonderful women who will receive insurance coverage without paying out-of-pocket because you fall below a certain income level. What insurance company uses that business model? > [@](#): > > …But, yeah. No copays means insurance companies will spread that cost to everyone who buys that insurance plan, which means higher premiums. Do you want to argue otherwise? But that is true of any claim. People pay premiums. Insurance companies pay benefits, according to the terms of the policy. I thought you conservatives were all about the free market; if you don’t like the way an insurance company pays benefits or prices premiums, you can vote with your wallet and do business with another company. Stop whining like a socialist. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/258 "2011-08-13T01:58:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No, it’s only on the customer’s dime. You don’t have to pay anyone else’s premiums. It’s actually kind of none of your business what’s in someone else’s plan. That would be true if one wasn’t forced into buying a policy. But once HCR kicks in, everyone will have to buy a policy or be hit with a fine. So you’d end up with an unwilling customer being forced to pay higher premiums than they otherwise would be because someone else wants something at a discount to themselves… So long to the American dream ☹ > [@](#): > > It actually lowers costs in the long run. Not as much as UHC would, though. I agree that the insurance companies are fucked up, but it’s all we’ve got until we decide to join the 21st Century like the rest of the civilized world. Ignoring the “civilized world” quip, least because it’s ignorant as it assumes countries without UHC are uncivilized, good luck proving this. This is like the whole “Health care reform will lower costs in the future!” spiel. There’s no way to know this until you actually get to the future. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/259 "2011-08-13T02:00:48Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You clearly don’t understand how insurance works. Clearly, you haven’t been keeping up with HCR. > [@](#): > > What insurance company uses that business model? The government. > [@](#): > > But that is true of any claim. No, it isn’t. > [@](#): > > People pay premiums. Insurance companies pay benefits, according to the terms of the policy. I thought you conservatives were all about the free market; if you don’t like the way an insurance company pays benefits or prices premiums, you can vote with your wallet and do business with another company. Stop whining like a socialist. That would be nice if people had the option of forgoing insurance. But they don’t. Well, unless they want to be taxed (oh, I mean “fined”). ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/260 "2011-08-13T02:01:05Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > Well, we’ve got two of the three resident batcrap crazies in attendance. If we could just get **Susanann** in here, we might generate an infinite feedback loop where they all talk to each other and the thread becomes a containment unit. **Omg a Black Conservative** just showed up so that makes one more crazy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972.md?page=14)