# Birth control, breast pumps, counseling for abuse? Are we going to do pedicures & manicures as well? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972 "2011-08-08T18:29:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/301 "2011-08-13T03:26:13Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > This isn’t the third world though I have noticed women in less technologically developed countries will immediately grasp on to formula when they realize it will allow them to get a few hours of uninterrupted sleep because it means somebody other than them can feed the baby. I find the breast-feeding Taliban rather dangerous for American women. They want to drive us back into slavery to biology. Like I said before two of the greatest gifts to women everywhere were hormonal birth control and bottled formula. Psst…people can feed babies pumped milk from a bottle in the middle of the night, you know. And you can also do breast milk AND formula, in whatever combination is most helpful to you. There are a million ways to be liberated and breastfeed, too, it’s really not an either/or proposition, I swear. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/302 "2011-08-13T03:28:22Z")
[quote=“LavenderBlue, post:294, topic:591972”] You’ve never done it. How the hell would you know? I let you in on a little secret: nursing feels very good. QUOTE] I have counseled plenty of women who felt suicidal over the fact that they had to breastfeed. Nightmares about the baby eating them (which in a way the baby actually was). Wanting to kill the baby because it was a vampire, etc., Switching to formula always ended the problem. And your comment about nursing feels very good, that borders on incest. Yeah, having your nipples sucked on can feel very good, no argument there, but you really shouldn’t be using your kid for that sort of stimulation. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/303 "2011-08-13T03:31:01Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Under HCR, the government insures no one. Show me where I said they did, please. > [@](#): > > All insurance is provided by private insurance companies. The government subsidizes the most indigent, but all the insurance is from private companies, and you are free to choose the one that fits your peculiar understanding of how insurance should work. If you have insurance now, nothing will change for you. You are free to choose to do business with whomever you like. …Okay. So it seems here we have another individual who apparently didn’t keep up with the whole HCR thing. 1.) Currently, if you can’t afford insurance, **you don’t get insurance**. Under the government’s plan, if you can’t afford insurance, then **the government pays for it for you**. You pay nothing out-of-pocket. Of course, that really isn’t the government paying, but your fellow tax payer. But hey-- it’s all in the benefit of your fellow (wo)man, right? 2.) Currently, you get what you pay for. Of course, you apparently believe that some should get more than what they pay for and others should get less than what they pay for. Let’s say, right now, I have an insurance policy which costs me \ amount of dollars each month. Furthermore, somewhere out there is a woman who is paying a copay of \ amount of dollars for her birth control. In two years time, or whatever it is, she’ll be paying no copay for her birth control. To compensate for the lost revenue, my insurance company will raise my premium by some percentage. Unless her premium is going to rise to a level which would offset the costs of her copay, which is highly unlikely to happen, she’s now better off, as she’s paying less and getting more, while I’m now worse off, as I’m getting the same but paying more. But, apparently, **THAT’S HOW INSURANCE SHOULD WORK** , right? To say “nothing will change for me” is, at best, fanciful thinking and, at worst, an outright lie. Now explain to me why I should have to pay more for something I don’t and won’t use? > [@](#): > > You do not have the right to expose the rest of us to the risk that you might need emergency care with out insurance. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait a fucking minute. Let me make sure I understand this correctly. I don’t have a right to financially burden you if I get sick (which, by the way, is a straw man since no one said that), but you have the right to financially burden me by making me pay for things I might not want to pay for or buy into programs I might not want to buy into all for the benefit of someone else? Really…??? I’m hoping this isn’t what you’re saying because, if you are, then you’d be a massive hypocrite of epic proportions. > [@LavenderBlue](#): > > No she really doesn’t have any points. And neither do **Curlcoat** or **Omg a Black Conservative**. You’re a funny individual. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/304 "2011-08-13T03:31:22Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > This isn’t the third world though I have noticed women in less technologically developed countries will immediately grasp on to formula when they realize it will allow them to get a few hours of uninterrupted sleep because it means somebody other than them can feed the baby. I find the breast-feeding Taliban rather dangerous for American women. They want to drive us back into slavery to biology. Like I said before two of the greatest gifts to women everywhere were hormonal birth control and bottled formula. You know nothing about this subject. NOTHING. Is that clear? If you take away anything from this thread you need to take that away. FYI, I nursed for two years. Nursing women can handle night time feedings in one of two ways. They can buy a safe co-sleeper, drop the boob into the baby’s mouth and just lie back as the baby nurses. They can also (OMG!) pump extra milk, store it and then ask someone else to give the baby a bottle of breast milk at night. I actually have about ten extra ounces right now. Guess what? I plan to sleep in and let my husband feed the baby if she gets up early this morning. She probably will. Why do you keep posting about breast feeding when you are completely and utterly ignorant about it? ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/305 "2011-08-13T03:36:33Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > > [@LavenderBlue](#): > > > > You’ve never done it. How the hell would you know? > > > > I let you in on a little secret: nursing feels very good. > > I have counseled plenty of women who felt suicidal over the fact that they had to breastfeed. Nightmares about the baby eating them (which in a way the baby actually was). Wanting to kill the baby because it was a vampire, etc., Switching to formula always ended the problem. And your comment about nursing feels very good, that borders on incest. Yeah, having your nipples sucked on can feel very good, no argument there, but you really shouldn’t be using your kid for that sort of stimulation. Please tell me you’re making up the part about counseling women. Please, please, please let that be a giant lie for the sake of women everywhere. That may be the single most frightening statement in this entire thread. If you’re really going to compare nursing a baby to an act of incest you shouldn’t never go near a nursing woman ever again. You should probably stay away from pregnant women just to be on the safe side. FYI, woman who dislike nursing should not nurse. No one has said otherwise. You might want to stop constructing those strawmen no one else is building. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/306 "2011-08-13T03:39:04Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Your priviledged, sheltered life has made it possible for you to say breastfeeding is not terribly difficult or expensive. Breast feeding is the default for women in third world poverty. It’s not a luxury, it;s the very cheapest way to feed a baby. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/307 "2011-08-13T03:41:54Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Sure I will. Right off the bat, you blamed La Leche League for giving women the idea that their baby “must” have breastmilk while she’s gone. If you understood all the benefits of breastmilk…one of which, by the way, is saving tons of money…you wouldn’t understand that it’s not a matter of “must,” it’s a matter of good sense. Um, you are agreeing with me here. Breastfeeding is a choice, not something babies must have to survive. Nursing nazis have tried to convince women that if the feed their babies formula, they are killing them or at the very least, condemning them to a lifetime of ill health and misery, when that is clearly not true. You all want to BF your kids, I don’t care. I merely comment that it is not a must. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/308 "2011-08-13T03:44:29Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Um, you are agreeing with me here. Breastfeeding is a choice, not something babies must have to survive. Nursing nazis have tried to convince women that if the feed their babies formula, they are killing them or at the very least, condemning them to a lifetime of ill health and misery, when that is clearly not true. > > You all want to BF your kids, I don’t care. I merely comment that it is not a must. No one said it was…you were the one who jumped right to assuming that’s why women do it, vs. the clear cost-saving benefit. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/309 "2011-08-13T04:14:44Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > No one said it was…you were the one who jumped right to assuming that’s why women do it, vs. the clear cost-saving benefit. Where did I make the assumption that women must breastfeed? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/310 "2011-08-13T04:39:53Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Wanting to kill the baby because it was a vampire I… I think I’ll just quote this and leave it there, I don’t think I need to add anything to that. I don’t think I \*can \*add anything to that. Except maybe to say it’s the [watermelon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire_pumpkins_and_watermelons)you’ve got to watch out for, silly. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/311 "2011-08-13T05:19:11Z")
I’m glad that our fruitful discussion about Sandy Rios being a vile shitstain who hates women got distracted by a discussion about. . .I don’t know? Women who have gone into such a psychotic state that they think their babies are vampires or something. IDK. How about this: **ZPG Zealot** , what if the law supported supplementing formula costs for families, not breast pumps? What about that? Would you then be as pissed at Sandy’s comments as the rest of us are? I’d hope so, as someone who claims to be pro woman. Also, how do you feel about Mrs. Rios’ comments about birth control being frivolous and silly feminine things like pedicures? Let’s talk about _that._ ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/312 "2011-08-13T05:22:34Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I’m glad that our fruitful discussion about Sandy Rios being a vile shitstain who hates women got distracted by a discussion about. . .I don’t know? Women who have gone into such a psychotic state that they think their babies are vampires or something. IDK. > > How about this: **ZPG Zealot** , what if the law supported supplementing formula costs for families, not breast pumps? What about that? Would you then be as pissed at Sandy’s comments as the rest of us are? I’d hope so, as someone who claims to be pro woman. > > Also, how do you feel about Mrs. Rios’ comments about birth control being frivolous and silly feminine things like pedicures? Let’s talk about _that._ Can I ask again, as I did way back when - can anyone explain to me why she is on about the debt if this only applies to private insurance companies? ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/313 "2011-08-13T05:27:11Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Can I ask again, as I did way back when - can anyone explain to me why she is on about the debt if this only applies to private insurance companies? I don’t quite understand it either (and honestly, does there really have to be logic embedded in every batshit ass statement? :D), but I believe the general idea is that the cost of this problem will be absorbed by the companies, who will in turn raise premiums, which will then affect all American insured folks who are already running on low funds. Or something. Maybe there’s someone who gets it more than I do. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/314 "2011-08-13T05:33:40Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I don’t quite understand it either (and honestly, does there really have to be logic embedded in every batshit ass statement? :D), but I believe the general idea is that the cost of this problem will be absorbed by the companies, who will in turn raise premiums, which will then affect all American insured folks who are already running on low funds. > Or something. Maybe there’s someone who gets it more than I do. Heh, sounds like “or something” is the answer. Or maybe just to confuse things, since it certainly confused me. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/315 "2011-08-13T13:53:09Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Paid, with guarantee of a job when they got back. I _think_ it was only three months for a non C-section leave, but I’m not sure - I just remember the six months because I’d had loved to have six months paid leave after any of my big life events. That’s extremely atypical. Employers are not required to give _any_ paid leave under FMLA, and most don’t. If you want to claim that parents get special status from employers (tangentially related to the thread, I suppose…), you’ll have to leave this out of your argument. In fact, doing away with copays for breastpumps allows women to return to work more quickly, and will reduce the number of (imaginary) women getting months upon months of paid leave. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/316 "2011-08-13T14:13:41Z")
Cite for my previous post: [Only 8% of companies offer paid leave](http://money.usnews.com/money/articles/2009/09/15/7-strategies-for-a-successful-maternity-leave). Women without paid leave take an average of 6.6 weeks, and those with paid leave take an average of 10.5 weeks. ---
**Author:** ![cards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecd19e/32.png) [@cards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cards)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/317 "2011-08-13T17:39:39Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > cite. > **[Erections Get Insurance; Why Not the Pill?](https://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=91538)** ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/318 "2011-08-13T18:01:35Z")
> [@cards](#): > > [Erections Get Insurance; Why Not the Pill? - ABC News](http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=91538) As a Charter Member, you should know it is generally considered polite around here to give a sum up of the content of a link, not just post a link nothing else. This is an article about how viagra (and other ED pills) are covered and BC is not. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/319 "2011-08-13T18:12:44Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I have counseled plenty of women who felt suicidal over the fact that they had to breastfeed. Nightmares about the baby eating them (which in a way the baby actually was). Wanting to kill the baby because it was a vampire, etc., Switching to formula always ended the problem. And your comment about nursing feels very good, that borders on incest. Yeah, having your nipples sucked on can feel very good, no argument there, but you really shouldn’t be using your kid for that sort of stimulation. You’re insane, and the women that you “counseled” deserved better than you. I can certainly imagine that there might be some women out there who have odd reactions to breastfeeding. Having you counsel them did them a great disservice. Because you’re insane. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2011, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/320 "2011-08-13T19:01:46Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I have counseled plenty of women who felt suicidal over the fact that they had to breastfeed. Nightmares about the baby eating them (which in a way the baby actually was). Wanting to kill the baby because it was a vampire, etc., Switching to formula always ended the problem. And your comment about nursing feels very good, that borders on incest. Yeah, having your nipples sucked on can feel very good, no argument there, but you really shouldn’t be using your kid for that sort of stimulation. This has to be the craziest thing I’ve ever read regarding breastfeeding. I’ve talked to more women than I can count about it and while I would never deny that it’s unpleasant for some people, the shit you’re saying is just psycho. There’s nothing incestuous about breastfeeding, and people saying shit like that just makes it harder for women to breastfeed successfully. It’s _supposed_ to be a pleasant experience for mother and child. The only perverted thing about it is people like YOU making the most natural thing in the world into something sexual and dirty. There’s something wrong with YOUR brain if those are the thoughts that enter your mind when a woman says that she enjoys breasfeeding and it feels good. Damn, you are a sick fucking asshole. Please don’t ever talk to pregnant or nursing women ever again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972.md?page=17)