# Birth control, breast pumps, counseling for abuse? Are we going to do pedicures & manicures as well? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972 "2011-08-08T18:29:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/401 "2011-08-17T20:03:15Z")
The baby is valuable for parts alone. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/402 "2011-08-17T20:10:57Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > What if the baby is a werewolf? Take it James Randi’s foundation immediately. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/403 "2011-08-17T21:11:54Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Hell, my parents “loved” me… Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/404 "2011-08-17T22:54:57Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Clearly, what we need is some way to determine whose childbearing should be subsidized–or, even better, who should be allowed to breed at all! That is easy: I have a list! :: Pulls out 50 ft-long list :: ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/405 "2011-08-17T23:33:15Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > That is easy: I have a list! > > :: Pulls out 50 ft-long list :: That’s your short list, right? 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/406 "2011-08-18T02:38:36Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > I know that STD means Short-Term Disability (to be contrasted with LTD), but I’m still going to read it as Sexually Transmitted Disease all through this post and giggle quietly to myself. (Especially amusing in the context of pregnancy.) I’m glad I’m not the only one. At my workplace we use the terms all the time and it cracks me up every time I hear it. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/407 "2011-08-18T15:34:45Z")
> [@overlyverbose](#): > > I’m glad I’m not the only one. At my workplace we use the terms all the time and it cracks me up every time I hear it. I was also a member of Sigma Tau Delta (the International English Honor Society) in college. All I could think was, “_Really_, guys? You love language, but the Greek letters you pick for your organization share an English abbreviation with a common way to refer to venereal diseases?” ETA: And don’t give me any shit about ΣΤΔ (society) predating STD (disease) by fifty years. _I don’t care._ They should have predicted it. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/408 "2011-08-18T17:42:41Z")
Back on topic ;). I just got an email from a Pro Choice group that had another brilliant quote from Sandy, the moron, Rios: > [@](#): > > “Women should just stop having irresponsible sex … Let’s stop making excuses and providing a way to get women out of trouble when they should be responsible in their behavior.” [Linky poo,](http://mediamatters.org/blog/201107200040) Words cannot describe what a vile, anti woman monster Sandy Rios is. Like I said a few pages ago, Sandy must be fighting hard against the whores because if they aren’t shunned for their behavior, she will have nothing but a life wasted on missed opportunities. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/409 "2011-08-18T18:15:36Z")
So, human breast milk is watery, grey, and thin. Were it not for the stunningly attactive packaging… ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/410 "2011-08-18T19:04:19Z")
Every time I hear the term anti-woman, I laugh to myself. But, anyway, the problem isn’t that people don’t have access to contraception. The problem is that, as I pointed out way early in this thread, is that: **PEOPLE**. **DO**. **NOT**. **USE**. **IT**. **EVEN**. **THOUGH**. **IT’S**. **AVAILABLE**. It’s really that simple. Throwing money away for free contraception when the majority of people who obtain abortions don’t use it is folly. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/411 "2011-08-18T19:08:41Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Every time I hear the term anti-woman, I laugh to myself. But, anyway, the problem isn’t that people don’t have access to contraception. The problem is that, as I pointed out way early in this thread, is that: > > **PEOPLE**. **DO**. **NOT**. **USE**. **IT**. **EVEN**. **THOUGH**. **IT’S**. **AVAILABLE**. > > It’s really that simple. > > Throwing money away for free contraception when the majority of people who obtain abortions don’t use it is folly. That’s right. I mean, it works in other countries and lowers the abortion rate, but it could never work here. You are an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/412 "2011-08-18T19:09:36Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Every time I hear the term anti-woman, I laugh to myself. But, anyway, the problem isn’t that people don’t have access to contraception. The problem is that, as I pointed out way early in this thread, is that: > > **PEOPLE**. **DO**. **NOT**. **USE**. **IT**. **EVEN**. **THOUGH**. **IT’S**. **AVAILABLE**. > > It’s really that simple. > > Throwing money away for free contraception when the majority of people who obtain abortions don’t use it is folly. But if they don’t use it, your premiums won’t go up and it won’t cost you anything. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/413 "2011-08-18T19:25:56Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Throwing money away for free contraception when the majority of people who obtain abortions don’t use it is folly. [Fifty-four percent of women who have abortions had used a contraceptive method (usually the condom or the pill) during the month they became pregnant. Among those women, 76% of pill users and 49% of condom users report having used their method inconsistently, while 13% of pill users and 14% of condom users report correct use.[8]](http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html) Speaking as the parent of a young adult who also remembers what it was like to be young and broke, I’ll bet more pill users would use their pills more consistently if they didn’t have to occasionally choose between their pills and $30 worth of, oh, food. ---
**Author:** ![otternell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecc23a/32.png) [@otternell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/otternell)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/414 "2011-08-18T19:26:57Z")
So there’s already free birth control out there in the US that people aren’t using? Amazing, I had no idea. Hell I still have to pay for my pills. I must have missed that boat. Or perhaps I’m not the one that missed that this birth control would be free at the point of purchase (obviously covered under ins premiums) for the user. And that currently, in the US, there is no such thing. Therefore the PEOPLE THAT AREN’T USING IT, might not be using it because its not free at the point of purchase. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/415 "2011-08-18T19:44:38Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Every time I hear the term anti-woman, I laugh to myself. But, anyway, the problem isn’t that people don’t have access to contraception. The problem is that, as I pointed out way early in this thread, is that: > > **PEOPLE**. **DO**. **NOT**. **USE**. **IT**. **EVEN**. **THOUGH**. **IT’S**. **AVAILABLE**. > > It’s really that simple. > > Throwing money away for free contraception when the majority of people who obtain abortions don’t use it is folly. > [@DianaG](#): > > [Fifty-four percent of women who have abortions had used a contraceptive method (usually the condom or the pill) during the month they became pregnant. Among those women, 76% of pill users and 49% of condom users report having used their method inconsistently, while 13% of pill users and 14% of condom users report correct use.[8]](http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html) > > Speaking as the parent of a young adult who also remembers what it was like to be young and broke, I’ll bet more pill users would use their pills more consistently if they didn’t have to occasionally choose between their pills and $30 worth of, oh, food. It’s not just a matter of using it, improperly or not, and getting pregnant. It’s also not just a matter of failing to use it and getting pregnant. There’s also the question of how many abortions were prevented because birth control worked, and an abortion never had to be considered. And let’s not forget how many unloved or unwanted children _weren’t_ born into unfortunate situations because birth control worked as advertised. I don’t know how one would generate stats about either of these two very frequent occurrences. **Omg a Black Conservative** , are you of the opinion that birth control in and of itself is morally problematic? I understand you are objecting to a government subsidy – are you also objecting to its widespread availability? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/416 "2011-08-18T19:51:40Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > There’s also the question of how many abortions were prevented because birth control worked True dat. Without birth control I personally could borrow your toothbrush and get pregnant. I’d have had a standing monthly appointment at Planned Parenthood without the pill. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/417 "2011-08-18T20:12:51Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > [Fifty-four percent of women who have abortions had used a contraceptive method (usually the condom or the pill) during the month they became pregnant. Among those women, 76% of pill users and 49% of condom users report having used their method inconsistently, while 13% of pill users and 14% of condom users report correct use.[8]](http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html) > > Speaking as the parent of a young adult who also remembers what it was like to be young and broke, I’ll bet more pill users would use their pills more consistently if they didn’t have to occasionally choose between their pills and $30 worth of, oh, food. I will just quote previous posts, since I’ve already gone over this. > [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > According to the Alan Guttmacher Institute, fifty-four percent of women who have abortions had used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant, with most people using them infrequently. Therefore, you can’t say anything about them. The other 46%, however, had not. Of the 46% who had not used contraception: > > -33.1% didn’t use them because they didn’t think they’d get pregnant at the time > -32.3% didn’t use them because they had had problems with contraceptives in the past, were afraid of side effects or thought it would make sex less fun > -26.5% had ‘unexpected’ sex or were forced into having sex (1.3%) > -21.5% were ambivalent about contraceptive use > -12.0% didn’t use them because they say they didn’t have access to them, either because they couldn’t afford them, they didn’t know where to find them or they just didn’t bother to get a refill > -10.4% didn’t use use them because their partner didn’t want them to or wanted them to get pregnant > -4.6% were ambivalent about becoming pregnant > -2.4% didn’t use them because they were afraid their parents might find out they were having sex > > (There is overlap between the categories.) > > [Link](http://www.guttmacher.org/tables/3429402t.html#t3) > > I’ll just focus on the 12%. Of that 12%, 7.9% said their non-use was for financial reasons, 2.1% said their non-use was because they didn’t know where to find contraceptives and 2.5% said they just didn’t a method and/or a refill (doesn’t add up to 12%). The latter reason is nothing but laziness and the second to last reason is a piss poor excuse for not using contraceptives as anyone over the age of 15 knows where to get some condoms, as you can find them in just about any gas station or convenience store (and since the majority of people who have abortions are in their 20’s, that’s an even worse excuse). So that leaves us with 7.9%. > > Let’s just say that, now, those 7.9% of people who has no access to contraceptives (hard to believe, really) who also have abortions now get access to contraception. Approximately half of them will use them while the other half won’t, and around half that uses contraceptives will use them inconsistently. So the question is, why should we subsidize contraceptives (free of copays!) when: > > (1) The majority already has access to them and > (2) The majority who already has access to them don’t use them? > > It’d make much more sense to promote some measure of-- you know-- personal responsibility\*. But this is a problem we have in this discourse. One side likes to treat the issue of one where every woman-- or even the majority of women-- do everything they can to not become pregnant. It’s not and they don’t. A simple fact of the matter if that many people don’t use contraceptives simply because they don’t want to or use them infrequently because they simply don’t care, so why pay for something people aren’t going to use anyway? And: > [@You, sir. Yes, you! Are a partisan asshole.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/you-sir-yes-you-are-a-partisan-asshole/591780/242): > > Anyway, ignoring the fact that legalized abortion mitigates contraceptive use, just look at data from [Guttmacher](http://www.guttmacher.org/tables/3429402t.html#t1). Right off the bat, approximately 46.3% of women who have abortion use **no contraceptive method whatsoever**. Of the remaining women who were using contraceptives when they became pregnant, 13.6% of them were using the pill, 27.6% of them were using the male condom and 7.3% of them were using the withdrawal method (those are the three most popular methods). > > Of course, it’s important to note that 53.7% of women who obtain abortion don’t become pregnant despite using contraceptives. In fact, a large portion of that 53.7% weren’t using contraceptives at the time they became pregnant. For example, for pill users 75.9% reported inconsistent use at the time they got pregnant: > > -45.1% simply forgot to take pills > -15.9% were away from home and didn’t have pills > -10.3% ran out of supplies > -7.7% were sick > -2.1% didn’t think they would have sex again > -1.6% didn’t feel like taking pills > -0.3% reported their partner didn’t want them to take any pill > -0.2% thought they might have wanted to get pregnant > -3.6% report some other, undisclosed reason > > For condom users 49.3% reported inconsistent use at the time they got pregnant: > > -20.4% didn’t use because they didn’t think they’d get pregnant > -14.3% didn’t have one > -12.8% didn’t expect to have sex > -7.1% simply forgot about it > -5.6% didn’t feel like using one > -3.5% reported their partner didn’t feel like using one > -1.0% reported that their partner was supposed to bring one, though they still had sex > -1.0% said their partner wanted them to get pregnant > -0.5% were forced to have sex > -0.5% thought they wanted to get pregnant > -0.5% didn’t care if they got pregnant > > Now even granting you the 45.1% of women forgetting to take the pill (we’ll chalk that up to simple human error) and the 7.7% who was sick (as sometimes taking other medicine can interfere with the pill), I think it’s safe to say that approximately 22.9% of pill users and 46.8% of condom users weren’t exactly using the aforementioned methods as their primary form of contraception, **since they weren’t using them at the time they got pregnant**. If you add them to the other 46.3% of women who obtain an abortion when they weren’t using any type of contraceptives at all, you’d find that to add up to over half of all abortion cases. > > Good luck explaining that. Either way you slice it, the overwhelming number people who obtain abortions aren’t using contraception because they can’t afford them, but because they simply either don’t want to or they choose not to use contraception. When you get right down to it, that’s people choosing to have sex irresponsibly. There are no and’s, if’s or but’s about it. Subsidizing contraception will do jack shit to change that. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/418 "2011-08-18T20:27:50Z")
Which in no way explains your aversion to subsidizing it, since people who can’t be bothered still won’t be bothered, thus costing you nothing. ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/419 "2011-08-18T20:42:39Z")
So, let’s see. We are taking a step out of the journey to getting free birth control pills. Do you not think it is possible that someone who was lazy just might be more likely to get them (it sure worked for a lot of the girls I went to uni with)? Them haveing easier access is a good thing, right? And if they don’t, it doesn’t cost you anything so is a worthwhile experiment, right? ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/420 "2011-08-18T21:53:59Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Which in no way explains your aversion to subsidizing it, since people who can’t be bothered still won’t be bothered, thus costing you nothing. Under the ACA, birth control coverage, among other things, will be **mandated** at no extra cost to the woman. That will instantly correlate to higher premiums as the insurance company looks to cover the extra cost associated with providing essentially free coverage to people and/or to cover the revenue lost from there being no birth control copays. To say it would “cost me nothing” is hogwash. Insurance companies want to make money. They’re not going to give people coverage at a loss to themselves. Someone will end up having to pay for it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972.md?page=22)