# Birth control, breast pumps, counseling for abuse? Are we going to do pedicures & manicures as well? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972 "2011-08-08T18:29:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/61 "2011-08-09T00:34:10Z")
You know, that’s a whole lot of great spewing there, but it completely ignores one simple fact; **no one is getting anything for FREE here** , so what the hell difference does it make to you if a woman gets a diaphragm from her doctor and then is too lazy to stick it in one night? She paid for it **with her premium payments** , so what fucking business is it of yours? This is all part of the deal that insurance providers must now comply with, specifically, that 80-85% of your premium dollars are actually **spent by them on HEALTH CARE**. Not on advertising. Not on R&D. Not on CEO salaries and bonuses. Not on other overhead. Health care. And part of that 80-85% of a woman’s premium will now have to used to cover birth control, breast pumps, mammography, rape counseling, etc., without her having to pay a co-pay on top of that. She paid for those pills when she paid her premium every single month. Butt out. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/62 "2011-08-09T01:12:28Z")
Well, of course they’re not free. Other people-- not just the woman-- will shoulder the cost of them in the form of higher premiums on everyone. Insurance companies want to make money, you know? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/63 "2011-08-09T01:15:25Z")
They’ll pay a lot more if the woman come up pregnant. And who gives a fuck about cost anyway? It’s of absolutely no consequence whatsoever. It’s an ethical obligation. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/64 "2011-08-09T01:20:57Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Well, of course they’re not free. Other people-- not just the woman-- will shoulder the cost of them in the form of higher premiums on everyone. Insurance companies want to make money, you know? Oh bullshit. Do you know how much a 1 month package of birth control pills costs an insurance company? Nearly zero. Seriously. Nearly $0.00. I could buy my b/c pills over-the-counter when I lived in Mexico for $1.00 per month. A single dollar. Per month. And the pharmacy was making a profit off of it. But Big Pharma & Big Insurance conspire against women by making us pay $30 a month or more for what costs them, literally, pennies. If my policy costs me $300/month, the insurance company now **must** spend at least $240 of that on health care. So the first few pennies will be spent on b/c, leaving $239.98 left. No one’s paying for those pills except the woman who’s using them. Any argument otherwise is utterly disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/65 "2011-08-09T01:25:29Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > They’ll pay a lot more if the woman come up pregnant. > > And who gives a fuck about cost anyway? It’s of absolutely no consequence whatsoever. It’s an ethical obligation. You’re talking to a brick wall. You know the muted trombone “wah-wah” sound when an adult talks in a _Peanuts_ special? That’s what “ethical obligation” sounds like. ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/66 "2011-08-09T01:36:33Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Who gives a shit if it saves any costs anyway. It’s not about money, it’s about collective social responsibility. These services are needed. Pshaw. You and your “relevance.” We’d prefer to reframe the discussion so that this can be defeated, thankyouverymuch. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/67 "2011-08-09T01:59:24Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > It’s pretty hard to squeeze blood out of a turnip. No money at all, eh? > [@Shodan](#): > > Do you have any evidence of this, or is it just an assumption? It’s a considered opinion, which is why I used the words “I’d think” and put a question mark at the end. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > They are needed because mothers who work cannot nurse their babies throughout the day, so milk needs to be pumped and stored in order to…you know…_feed the fucking baby_ while the mom is at work. I was under the impression that the benefits under discussion were for those who were not working. I also didn’t realize that the La Leche Society got so powerful that if a mother does work, the baby must have her breast milk when she is gone. > [@](#): > > Nursing mothers also need to express milk periodically because it’s painful if they don’t and because (TMI) it fucking LEAKS if they don’t. Huh. I wonder how mothers of early generations dealt with that. > [@](#): > > As for reducing costs, who gives a shit. That’s a completely irrelevant question, and frankly a disingenuous one since the percentage of the budget we’re talking about is microscopic. We spend more money in ten minutes in Iraq than we don’t on ten years of breast pumps. It’s a phony objection. :rolleyes: So because we are (and I agree) wasting money in Iraq, it is OK for us to waste money elsewhere? And we shouldn’t be looking at the long term affects? OK… ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/68 "2011-08-09T02:05:29Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > No money at all, eh? Not really. She’s gotta a pretty shitty life, to be completely honest. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/69 "2011-08-09T02:05:36Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > You know, that’s a whole lot of great spewing there, but it completely ignores one simple fact; **no one is getting anything for FREE here** , so what the hell difference does it make to you if a woman gets a diaphragm from her doctor and then is too lazy to stick it in one night? She paid for it **with her premium payments** , so what fucking business is it of yours? > > This is all part of the deal that insurance providers must now comply with, specifically, that 80-85% of your premium dollars are actually **spent by them on HEALTH CARE**. Not on advertising. Not on R&D. Not on CEO salaries and bonuses. Not on other overhead. Health care. > > And part of that 80-85% of a woman’s premium will now have to used to cover birth control, breast pumps, mammography, rape counseling, etc., without her having to pay a co-pay on top of that. > > She paid for those pills when she paid her premium every single month. Butt out. Wait, what? This has to do with insurance company plans?? Not government programs??? If so, what the hell is Family PAC doing bitching about the national debt? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/70 "2011-08-09T02:06:57Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Not really. She’s gotta a pretty shitty life, to be completely honest. Gotta be hard on the kid… ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/71 "2011-08-09T02:10:34Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Gotta be hard on the kid… I’m with ya. I’m not even remotely defending her position as the smart or better one ;), just giving a general example of somebody who is a big ol’ expensive drain on the system. Of course, I’m derailing my own thread, since that’s not completely topical (she didn’t have any health insurance). ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/72 "2011-08-09T02:10:58Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Huh. I wonder how mothers of early generations dealt with that. Shoving diapers in their bra’s mostly. Or just never leaving the kid with anyone else. That said covering breast pumps in kind of a weird decision but based on the other items added I think it was supposed to be something for everyone: Birth control for those who don’t want to breed Breast pumps for those who do Counseling for those who had the choice taken away Look we’ve covered all the bases. Again though as said above this isn’t government money being handed out and it’s not like anyone is going to pay for medical insurance just to get a breast pump. They are putting legislation in place to force insurance companies to pay for things that they have determined are important yet they still don’t have to spend more than 85% of what they take in via premiums. If breast pumps were made out of solid gold your premiums might go up a few cents but it’s unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/73 "2011-08-09T02:37:26Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Wait, what? This has to do with insurance company plans?? Not government programs??? > > If so, what the hell is Family PAC doing bitching about the national debt? Yes! “[T]he new guidelines require new **health insurance plans to cover** women’s preventive services such as well-woman visits, breastfeeding support, domestic violence screening, and contraception without charging a co-payment, co-insurance or a deductible.” [http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2011pres/08/20110801b.html](http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2011pres/08/20110801b.html) These RWNJs will take every opportunity to NOT know what the hell they’re talking about, but spew about it anyway. You know that. ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/74 "2011-08-09T02:45:29Z")
nm, Shayna covered it. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/75 "2011-08-09T02:46:09Z")
This whole thread is a troll but I’ll bite. We have plenty of money for F-22’s, F-35’s and Stealth Destroyers (expensive shit designed to destroy an enemy that doesn’t exist and are useless in modern warfare) Yet, we don’t have enough money to take care of our own people. f-22 [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed\_Martin\_F-22\_Raptor](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-22_Raptor) > [@](#): > > The high cost of the aircraft, a lack of clear air-to-air combat missions because of delays in the Russian and Chinese fifth generation fighter programs, a US ban on Raptor exports, and the ongoing development of the supposedly cheaper and more versatile F-35 resulted in calls to end F-22 production.[N 1] In April 2009 the US Department of Defense proposed to cease placing new orders, subject to Congressional approval, for a final procurement tally of 187 Raptors.[10 F-35 [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed\_Martin\_F-35\_Lightning\_II](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II) The United States intends to buy a total of 2,443 aircraft for an estimated US$323 billion, making it the most expensive defense program ever.[12] The United States Air Force (USAF) budget data in 2010, along with other sources, projects the F-35 to have a flyaway cost from US$89 million to US$200 million over the planned production of F-35s.[13][14][15] Cost estimates have risen to $382 billion for 2,443 aircraft, at an average of $156 million each. The rising program cost estimates have cast doubt on the actual number to be produced for the U.S. In January 2011, the F-35B variant was placed on “probation” for two years because of development problems. In February 2011, the Pentagon put a price of $207.6 million for each of the 32 aircraft to be acquired in FY2012, rising to $304.15 million ($9,732.8/32) if its share of RDT&E spending is included.[ > [@](#): > These programs, that don’t really improve our national security, and are just about useless the way wars are fought today, if carried out, will cost over $1 trillion. The only real use for this stuff will be at air shows and as expensive Viagra for fighter jocks. Stealth destroyers, just about the same thing. Naval wars ended with WWII. Birth control and breast pumps. How can America possibly afford that? They might actually improve the lives of productive, taxpaying citizens. Plenty of money for the killing machine but don’t spend anything on improving peoples lives. Eisenhower (Army General) warned us but the country didn’t listen. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/76 "2011-08-09T02:48:52Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Again, I would like to see a cite that abuse counseling reduces costs overall. At least in the UK, domestic violence costs the state billions (in social services and court fees) and employers even more (in missed work due to injuries). If counseling can reduce instances of domestic abuse, I imagine it might save someone money, somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/77 "2011-08-09T03:02:52Z")
And just to help you with the math, one F-35, even if it can come in at $304 million, equates to over 1 million breast pumps at $300 each. And, I’m willing to make a huge bet, that if I place an order for 1 million breast pumps I can get them for less than $100 each which would equate to over 3 million breast pumps. Probably 2.5 million of them would actually get used. On the other hand, you know that there are going to be a number of asshat fighter jocks that are going to crash several of these F-35’s while killing themselves. After that, their widowed wives may need to go to work to support the family and may need a breast pump so she can properly feed her fatherless infant. ---
**Author:** ![moejoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@moejoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moejoe)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/78 "2011-08-09T03:04:51Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > It’s pretty hard to squeeze blood out of a turnip. Meh. They just squeeze all the other turnips to make up the difference. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/79 "2011-08-09T03:07:00Z")
> [@moejoe](#): > > Meh. They just squeeze all the other turnips to make up the difference. That’s . . . the point? ---
**Author:** ![moejoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@moejoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moejoe)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/80 "2011-08-09T03:13:02Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > That’s . . . the point? Well, yes. I guess it is, but it still bothers me. I’m not proud of the fact that it bothers me, but it does. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972.md?page=5)