# Birth control, breast pumps, counseling for abuse? Are we going to do pedicures & manicures as well? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972 "2011-08-08T18:29:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/81 "2011-08-09T03:15:43Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I was under the impression that the benefits under discussion were for those who were not working. Well, you were wrong then, weren’t you? > [@](#): > > I also didn’t realize that the La Leche Society got so powerful that if a mother does work, the baby must have her breast milk when she is gone. Well, yes, moron, babies have to feed frequently during the day. What the fuck did you think? > [@](#): > > Huh. I wonder how mothers of early generations dealt with that. “Mothers of early generations?” What the fuck does that MEAN? Historically, mothers have “dealt” with engorgement by _feeding their babies_, moron. > [@](#): > > :rolleyes: So because we are (and I agree) wasting money in Iraq, it is OK for us to waste money elsewhere? And we shouldn’t be looking at the long term affects? OK… You’re sitting on top of a camel with a cannon and complaining about the weight of your pants. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/82 "2011-08-09T03:51:37Z")
Breast feeding saves money: > [@](#): > > [Breastfeeding saves a lot of money, study says](http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/booster_shots/2010/04/breastfeeding-costs-support.html) > > If all U.S. women followed medical recommendations to breastfeed their infants exclusively for six months, the nation could save $13 billion a year in medical costs and prevent 911 deaths, according to an analysis published in the new issue of the journal Pediatrics. Anything we can do to help encourage women to give their babies breast milk is a good idea and will help us save money. Even pumped milk is far better than formula. If anything we should devote more money to helping women breast feed as much as possible for at least six months including helping them afford breast pumps so they can pump milk for their babies when away or the baby has latch difficulties and cannot nurse. I write that as someone who has fed my three month old daughter the occasional bottle of formula because I’ve run out of pumped milk. Why does right wing have such a bug up their collective asses about this issue? ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/83 "2011-08-09T04:06:07Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Breast feeding saves money: > > Anything we can do to help encourage women to give their babies breast milk is a good idea and will help us save money. Even pumped milk is far better than formula. If anything we should devote more money to helping women breast feed as much as possible for at least six months including helping them afford breast pumps so they can pump milk for their babies when away or the baby has latch difficulties and cannot nurse. I write that as someone who has fed my three month old daughter the occasional bottle of formula because I’ve run out of pumped milk. > > Why does right wing have such a bug up their collective asses about this issue? It’s tit sucking. Ew! C’mon, you don’t really have to ask. RWNJs are squicked out by anything to do with sexuality or body parts. Mostly because they’re ignorant, but also because they hate thinking anyone else has sex. Ever. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/84 "2011-08-09T04:14:51Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I was under the impression that the benefits under discussion were for those who were not working. I also didn’t realize that the La Leche Society got so powerful that if a mother does work, the baby must have her breast milk when she is gone… Of course the baby is going to need to eat while mama is at work. And if she works during the day, pumping helps in a few ways–providing milk for baby, relieving the pressure of engorgement, and helps keep the mama’s supply up. Despite what those who don’t understand how the breastfeeding relationship works, most bf mamas will do whatever they can to avoid giving their baby a bottle of formula while any alternative exists. Mothers who exclusively breastfeed do so for very good reason. And after putting in the work and energy it takes to establish a good bf relationship, it would be foolish to throw a hitch into it for the convenience and/or discomfort of others. ---
**Author:** ![Crackrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/919ad9/32.png) [@Crackrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crackrat)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/85 "2011-08-09T04:20:04Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Let’s just say that, now, those 7.9% of people who has no access to contraceptives (hard to believe, really) who also have abortions now get access to contraception. Approximately half of them will use them while the other half won’t, and around half that uses contraceptives will use them inconsistently. How much does it cost the insurance company to have a $0 co-pay on contraception that people don’t buy? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/86 "2011-08-09T04:35:24Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > **Simplicio** , didn’t you hear? In Communist China (and we’re totally heading down that road), they feed their babies breast milk. Do you want to be like Communist China? _Do you?!_ :dubious: I can no longer sit by and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/87 "2011-08-09T04:39:33Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Breast feeding saves money: > > Anything we can do to help encourage women to give their babies breast milk is a good idea and will help us save money. Even pumped milk is far better than formula. If anything we should devote more money to helping women breast feed as much as possible for at least six months including helping them afford breast pumps so they can pump milk for their babies when away or the baby has latch difficulties and cannot nurse. I write that as someone who has fed my three month old daughter the occasional bottle of formula because I’ve run out of pumped milk. > > Why does right wing have such a bug up their collective asses about this issue? Let’s create a scenario: “The Good Old Days” - Mom gets up early in the morning to work the farm and milk the cows. She takes her infant baby with her. She milks the cows while baby feeds on her breasts. Dad’s milking the other half of the herd but they all have to be milked. Dairy Farms - Highly work intensive but necessary. You have to love dairy farming to be a dairy farmer. It’s just too demanding. Government - Realizes that dairy farming is necessary for the health of the citizens. Dairy farmers must stay in business. It is good government to subsidize dairy farming for the good of it’s citizens and to keep the price of milk products low enough that people can afford to consume them. Technology - Automatic milking machines. Farmer Dad can get the automated machines to milk the cows without Mom having to be there. Still, dairy farming is a business that still marginally profitable. Government continues to subsidize the dairy farmers because they would otherwise conclude that “it’s just not worth it” and it would kill the dairy industry. Modern Day - Mom is working at a productive job. Mom’s want to have families and they get pregnant. That’s a good thing. We actually do need a future generation. Again, that’s a good thing. Nursing a child while working is a real problem. Can’t bring the kid to work, breast are engorged with the best stuff the kid could possibly get. Then enters: _ **DiosaBellissima** _: Moderator of all thing unnecessary and wasteful: Subsidizing machines to suck the teats of cows is a good use of government money but providing breast pumps for working women is a total waste. I’m pitting **DiosaBellissima** ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/88 "2011-08-09T04:40:13Z")
> [@Moonlitherial](#): > > Shoving diapers in their bra’s mostly. Eww. But then the idea of using a breast pump does that to me too…😃 > [@](#): > > Birth control for those who don’t want to breed > Breast pumps for those who do > Counseling for those who had the choice taken away > > Look we’ve covered all the bases. Makes sense! > [@Shayna](#): > > These RWNJs will take every opportunity to NOT know what the hell they’re talking about, but spew about it anyway. You know that. Actually, no I didn’t - I’m not sure I’d even heard of Family PAC prior to this and I don’t know what RWNJ is either. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Well, you were wrong then, weren’t you? No shit sherlock. > [@](#): > > Well, yes, moron, babies have to feed frequently during the day. What the fuck did you think? Millions of babies grow up just fine without having to be breastfed. Simply because you prefer they be breastfed doesn’t mean it has to be done. > [@](#): > > “Mothers of early generations?” What the fuck does that MEAN? Seriously? > [@](#): > > Historically, mothers have “dealt” with engorgement by _feeding their babies_, moron. You should quit slinging around that moron bit unless you slow down on your own moronic responses. Breastfeeding was common centuries ago and is apparently also common now, but in between times babies were fed formula (or in the case of myself and my brothers) cows milk only or as a supplement. It has only been relatively recently that breastfeeding only has become widespread - or have you been unaware of [the La Leche League](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Leche_League_International) (and I’m sure other such organizations)? AND, if a mother doesn’t breastfeed at all, her milk dries up and she doesn’t have to worry about engorgement. Remember, shit happened prior to the date of your birth that you may not be aware of. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/89 "2011-08-09T04:56:10Z")
Breastfeeding is common when women never leave the house. Breast milk is also better for a child…if that matters at all. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/90 "2011-08-09T04:58:06Z")
**Curlcoat** , Please just shut the fuck up about anything related to breastfeeding. Any time this topic comes up, you sound like a boob fearing ignoramus. Babies do better when they are nursed or given pumped breast milk. Babies who were fed cow’s milk historically had much higher infant mortality rates. This is a fact. This fact means that health care costs drop when we encourage women to breast feed or pump milk for at least three to six months. Repeat after me: THIS IS A GOOD THING. Cow’s milk and napkin sandwiches. I swear it explains so much in your case. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/91 "2011-08-09T04:58:34Z")
You pretty much don’t have any fucking idea what you’re talking about. Formula is shit, and it’s fucking _expensive_. There was a period where breast feeding was pathologized because people were fucking retarded. There is no comparuson between breastfeeding and formula (and they can’t drink cow milk for the first year, you fucking dunce. Educate yourself). (ETA above was addressed to **curlcoat** , not **LavenderBlue** ). ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/92 "2011-08-09T05:07:01Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > You should quit slinging around that moron bit unless you slow down on your own moronic responses. Breastfeeding was common centuries ago and is apparently also common now, but in between times babies were fed formula (or in the case of myself and my brothers) cows milk only or as a supplement. It has only been relatively recently that breastfeeding only has become widespread - or have you been unaware of [the La Leche League](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Leche_League_International) (and I’m sure other such organizations)? AND, if a mother doesn’t breastfeed at all, her milk dries up and she doesn’t have to worry about engorgement. > > Remember, shit happened prior to the date of your birth that you may not be aware of. You were doing OK and then that. WTF? You can raise tomatoes on a hothouse, pick them while they are still green, gas them so they will look good in the store but they may taste like shit because that’s not the best way to grow tomatoes. Or, you can grow then properly and enjoy. Yes, you can raise a kid on formula and It might work out but breast milk is far superior. Why not promote the use of it instead of making it a big hassle? It’s a simple, cheap way of addressing a problem. It’s good for the child, it’s good for the mother. Look at the cost of formula. It’s cheap and simple to pollute the rivers, that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t absorb the cost of keeping them clean. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/93 "2011-08-09T05:09:26Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Oh bullshit. Do you know how much a 1 month package of birth control pills costs an insurance company? Nearly zero. Seriously. Nearly $0.00. I could buy my b/c pills over-the-counter when I lived in Mexico for $1.00 per month. A single dollar. Per month. And the pharmacy was making a profit off of it. > > But Big Pharma & Big Insurance conspire against women by making us pay $30 a month or more for what costs them, literally, pennies. > > If my policy costs me $300/month, the insurance company now **must** spend at least $240 of that on health care. So the first few pennies will be spent on b/c, leaving $239.98 left. No one’s paying for those pills except the woman who’s using them. Any argument otherwise is utterly disingenuous. …Okay. So I see you have no facts. Just screaming “bullshit” does not make it so. It’s great that you live in some alternate universe where insurance companies are willing to eat costs, but I live in the real world, and here in the real world, insurance companies-- actually, all companies, really-- live to make a profit. Companies don’t eat costs they don’t have to. They’re going to to pass off those costs to everyone, regardless of whether or not you use birth control or are even a female. That’s a simple fact. > [@](#): > > Officials said the women’s prevention package will be available Jan. 1, 2013, in most cases, resulting in a slight overall increase in premiums. [Link](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_FREE_BIRTH_CONTROL?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT) Edit: Also, I rolled my eyes at Big Pharma conspiring against women. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/94 "2011-08-09T05:11:34Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > At least in the UK, domestic violence costs the state billions (in social services and court fees) and employers even more (in missed work due to injuries). If counseling can reduce instances of domestic abuse, I imagine it might save someone money, somewhere. **Shodan** , you chose the wrong horse. And yeah, they won’t give you a refund at the Two Dollar Window, so quit whining. Accept that you are WRONG, for the first fucking time, and learn from the experience. Birth control: GOOD, whether she’s clubbing every night or she and her husband need her income in these trying times. Breast pumps: GOOD, for the same reason–at least she’s paying taxes and insurance premiums. Abuse counselling: GOOD, as it helps her recover so she can continue to pay taxes and insurance premiums. It’s one thing to pretend that these women are not paying insurance premiums. That just means you are stupid. But we are talking about working women who are part of the tax base, too. We should make sure they stay part of it until they voluntarily opt out of it and their partners start paying the co-pay. Which was okay in 1985 but totally screwed me in 1989. Check your policy before you have twins. But you know that extended EVA scene in Outland? It was New Years Eve and very boring and the policy was in my desk at work and I had no idea my wife would call it as female twins within minutes and make me paint their future bedroom pink. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/95 "2011-08-09T05:51:58Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > You should quit slinging around that moron bit unless you slow down on your own moronic responses. Breastfeeding was common centuries ago and is apparently also common now, but in between times babies were fed formula (or in the case of myself and my brothers) cows milk only or as a supplement. It has only been relatively recently that breastfeeding only has become widespread - or have you been unaware of [the La Leche League](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Leche_League_International) (and I’m sure other such organizations)? AND, if a mother doesn’t breastfeed at all, her milk dries up and she doesn’t have to worry about engorgement. > > Remember, shit happened prior to the date of your birth that you may not be aware of. I don’t understand what your problem is with breastfeeding. Honestly, how does it affect you at all? Anyone who has been awake the last few decades (at least) is aware that the benefits of breastfeeding far outweight the “benefits” of formula. I am all for a woman choosing what is best for herself and her baby, but it’s silly to try to deny that formula comes anywhere near as close to breastmilk. > **[Breastfeeding](https://www.who.int/health-topics/breastfeeding)** > > Breastfeeding I’m not one to harp on it, or try to shove it in people’s faces when they aren’t interested, but let’s not be ridiculous and act like feeding a baby artificially comes anywhere near as close. Yeah, I’m sure you and a bunch of other people were fed formula are turned out “just fine,” but that’s not a reliable scientific way to measure outcomes. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/96 "2011-08-09T06:20:57Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > You’re talking to a brick wall. You know the muted trombone “wah-wah” sound when an adult talks in a _Peanuts_ special? That’s what “ethical obligation” sounds like. Not feeling ethical obligations to your fellow man makes you, by definition, a sociopath. And not thinking women should have easy, guaranteed access to birth control, breast pumps, or rape counseling makes you an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/97 "2011-08-09T11:10:09Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Are you under the impression that the federal government will be paying the copays for all the birth control prescriptions now? No, the cost of premiums will increase minimally amongst the entire pool of covered individuals to compensate for the cost. My insurance provider already provides birth control pills at a zero copay, and I know of many others who already do too. This is just a requirement of the new health bill that insurance companies who aren’t already, provide these services at a zero copay. It doesn’t eliminate the requirement for a deductible or a premium payment, so stop with the “wAAHHhhh the government has to pay for so much stuff now! It’s not fair!!” bullshit. How dare you taint the well with facts like those??? Nonsense. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Girl\_From\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Girl\_From\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_From_Mars)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/98 "2011-08-09T11:29:39Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Huh. I wonder how mothers of early generations dealt with that. Do you really want to know? I got given [one of these](http://www.dhub.org/object/360388) by my mother as a joke baby shower gift… ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/99 "2011-08-09T12:04:16Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > At least in the UK, domestic violence costs the state billions (in social services and court fees) and employers even more (in missed work due to injuries). If counseling can reduce instances of domestic abuse, I imagine it might save someone money, somewhere. What evidence do you have that counseling reduces instances of domestic abuse? It’s nice to imagine that things might happen, somewhere, sometime, if we just spend enough money. But reality is generally more useful. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972/100 "2011-08-09T12:09:34Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > I imagine it might :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-control-breast-pumps-counseling-for-abuse-are-we-going-to-do-pedicures-manicures-as-well/591972.md?page=6)