# Birth of Jesus **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 24, 2013, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-of-jesus/651290 "2013-02-24T22:38:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-of-jesus/651290/41 "2013-02-26T16:58:49Z")
> [@druck](#): > > Is is possible Jesus was not born in December? Why is there a suggestion he was not? When else might he have been born and what supports those ideas? Are you Donald Trump? Are you offering a reward for the long form birth certificate? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-of-jesus/651290/42 "2013-02-26T21:11:26Z")
The 26th verse of Luke has an angel announcing the conception to Mary in “the sixth month”. By the Jewish calendar, this would be the month that ends with the week of Rosh Hoshanna/Yom Kippur, or late August~September. This places Jesus’ birth no earlier than mid March, possibly as late as early June, depending on how eager he was to be pushed out. 25 December is just untenable. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-of-jesus/651290/43 "2013-02-26T21:13:06Z")
> [@For You](#): > > The 26th verse of Luke has an angel announcing the conception to Mary in “the sixth month”. By the Jewish calendar, this would be the month that ends with the week of Rosh Hoshanna/Yom Kippur, or late August~September. This places Jesus’ birth no earlier than mid March, possibly as late as early June, depending on how eager he was to be pushed out. 25 December is just untenable. I can see the new line of preemie Jesus dolls. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-of-jesus/651290/44 "2013-02-26T21:35:06Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Interesting thread/username combo there, **Annie-Xmas**. 🆒 Unlike Jesus, I really was born on December 25th!!! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-of-jesus/651290/45 "2013-02-26T22:34:25Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Sigh… look, it isn’t just you. Every yera, around December, I see newspaper and magazine articles saying (ARE YOU READY FOR THIS??? IT WILL BOW YOUR MIND!!!), “Jesus probably wasn’t born on December 25th!” > > And we Christians are supposed to react… how? By questioning everything we’ve ever hedl dear? > > We KNOW Jesus probably wasn’t born on December 25th! ANY Catholic clergyman would gladly have TOLD you that nobody knows exactly when Jesus was born! The Gospel writers either didn’t know the date or didn’t think it was important. > > But it doesn’t matter- you can be sure this same shocking expose will be publihed again next December. > > Incidentally, while it’s quite POSSIBLE that early Church fathers chose December 25th as the date of Christmas because it was already a popular pagan holiday, that view is in hot dispute among historians. There are many who argue the reverse- that the pagan emperor Aurelian tried to MAKE Sol Invictus a big feast day to stand in opposition to the increasingly popular Christian holiday. The latter is likely true. The dude who picked Dec 25th was calculating backwards from some rough dates in what was then considered the history of Jesus. He was very likely wrong, but no doubt was sincere. No one knows the real day, Dec 25th is as good as any. As Ají de Gallina cite sez "\*but rather quickly the assignment of March 25th as the date of Christ’s conception prevailed. It is to this day, commemorated almost universally among Christians as the Feast of the Annunciation, when the Archangel Gabriel brought the good tidings of a savior to the Virgin Mary, upon whose acquiescence the Eternal Word of God (“Light of Light, True God of True God, begotten of the Father before all ages”) forthwith became incarnate in her womb. What is the length of pregnancy? Nine months. Add nine months to March 25th and you get December 25th; add it to April 6th and you get January 6th. December 25th is Christmas, and January 6th is Epiphany.\*" Yes, there were pagan holidays around then (about 2-4 days earlier, depending on the calendar). Take a look at any Roman calendar, try to find a date more than 10 days away from any holiday. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-of-jesus/651290/46 "2013-02-27T22:14:02Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > **Yetticus** -THANK YOU for the second link! I now know I’m not losing my mind. (at least over this) You are quite welcome…the book is a worthwhile read because the author is an astronomer and a coin collector who relied on coins, books (other than the just the Bible), and actual history of astronomy/astrology to support his investigation as to what the “star” actually was. I didn’t realize they had made a show for TV based on the book though. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-of-jesus/651290/47 "2013-02-27T23:09:29Z")
What I fail to get is that the magi were from the east, and they said they saw a star in the east, and it led them west. Seems rather unlikely in that day, Nicaragua would kind of get in their way. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-of-jesus/651290/48 "2013-02-28T00:23:50Z")
> [@For You](#): > > What I fail to get is that the magi were from the east, and they said they saw a star in the east, and it led them west. Seems rather unlikely in that day, Nicaragua would kind of get in their way. See my 2nd link on post #32 for a very plausible explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-of-jesus/651290/49 "2013-02-28T03:36:41Z")
> [@For You](#): > > What I fail to get is that the magi were from the east, and they said they saw a star in the east, and it led them west. Seems rather unlikely in that day, Nicaragua would kind of get in their way. Harold Camping, the radio theologian who predicted the end of the world (a couple years ago) had an interesting take on it: for the star to lead them to a specific inn, it could not possibly be an object in the firmament. He worked it out that it would have to be, at most, a few hundred feet in the air. Anything higher, and it could only lead them to the general neighborhood, not to a specific building. An interesting mixture of common sense and religious faith… ---
**Author:** ![K.S.Masmacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/96bed5/32.png) [@K.S.Masmacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K.S.Masmacho)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-of-jesus/651290/50 "2013-02-28T04:19:36Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s possible Jesus didn’t exist at all.　– Lobohan Actually, there is more evidence that Jesus did in fact exist than, say, some of the Roman Emperors. [http://www.gotquestions.org/did-Jesus-exist.html](http://www.gotquestions.org/did-Jesus-exist.html) (This is only one of many such sources available on the net) > [@](#): > > The Gospel stories were written much after the fact, and it’s incredibly unlikely that any note of all was taken in the birth of the one we now call Jesus. If there had been as much note of it as the stories we now tell, I’d think we’d know a lot more about his early life than we do because people would have been watching. – OldGuy The Apostle Paul had met Jesus’ brother, James, and Simon Peter as well. These were obviously contemporaries of Jesus. The Apostle John also knew Jesus’ mother, Mary, who not surprisingly could very well have shared what happened at the time of Jesus’ birth. The writers of the Gospels could therefore have had access to such information. As for being brief, it was common practice in those days to give only one or two accounts of someone’s childhood before writing about the important things they did during their adult life. > [@](#): > > I find it difficult to imagine that the authors would have access to anyone who might have witnessed any of those events. If I am very much mistaken, jesus’ followers would have been too young to remember those events. In the end, the whole nativity story is as believable as The Dragon Riders of Pern, it is just pure fantasy and/or the product of moldy wheat. – For You See above. > [@](#): > > There is no other independant mention of Herod killing babies in history. None. – Annie-Xmas True. But there are so many other examples of horrible things King Herod did do, that this is by no means far-fetched. Why would this story, which took place in an out-of-the-way little town, have rated historical importance in those days (except as it is attached to Jesus’ life)? Just another day in the life of King Herod. > [@](#): > > Why would that God signal astrologers (magi) from the East? > Why would that same God signal men that don’t worship him but do what he forbids? > Why would he lead them to the enemy, King Herod instead of straight to the child only to warn them after on not to go back to Herod? And afterward warn Joseph to flee to Egypt with the baby because of Herod wanting to kill the child? > – Ruben4Ruben If you read the Bible you will come up with even more questions. Why did God accept King David, murderer and adulterer? Why Moses, also murderer? Why is Rahab the harlot on Jesus’ geneology list? Why does it say God wants to save all people, including non-Jews such as the astrologers? Why does the Bible claim God loves all people, especially sinners? Also, you are assuming God led them to King Herod. However, the Bible does not say that. It only says that they went to King Herod to ask him where the baby might be. They decided that themselves, not God. God then intervened to save Mary, Joseph, and the child. ---
**Author:** ![ruben4ruben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@ruben4ruben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruben4ruben)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-of-jesus/651290/51 "2013-02-28T04:29:59Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That may have been the point. The state religions of Rome and Persia were big on astrology. So having astrologers note the birth of Jesus and go to worship him was basically a way of declaring the superiority of Christianity over the established religions. Originally Posted by ruben4ruben 5: The Hebrew God explicitly forbids astrology and idolatry in both Old and New Testament, forbids looking to the stars and celestial bodies or natural phenomena for signs. No, that cancels the point. He forbids astrology. Read Matthew or other parts of the bible. If God had anything to declare he NEVER ever used astrological ways to talk to non-believers. Clearest example: King Nebukadnezzar got dreams and the prophet Daniel explained. If you just read the bible you will see loads of ways God got his messages across. Dreams, angels, Prophets (Jona,Daniel) God forbids astrology, fortunetelling, all that occultist stuff. And your missing the other point: the star/thing/light took them straight to the enemy. Also note that Jesus, the Messiah had been prophesised to come since Genesis. The time of his birth was prophesised and all of Israel, especially Bethlehem was abuzz with expectation. The worst and stupidest thing you could do was send these men to Herod, a murderous amoral dictator. God didn’t need some foreign occultists to bring gifts and pay respects to his son as if he’s Vito Corleone. As if he could not have chosen local priests or faithful Hebrews from those scattered all over the Middle East and Africa. Your not even thinking on \*\*WHY \*\*God forbids astrology and all occultism. You just skip one of the oldest commandments as if it’s nothing. Have you ever thought about \*\*WHOM \*\*one contacts when practising occultism? Ever thought about WHO’S influence an astrologer or fortuneteller comes under? Wake up, you’ve been fed lies. All of Christmas is a fake. Hebrews, Jews and Christians never celebrated birthdays. That’s why there are **no birth dates** written in the bible. Just wake up and question every word and _tradition_ the church taught you. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-of-jesus/651290/52 "2013-02-28T04:56:11Z")
So what’s your point exactly? Are you claiming the Book of Matthew doesn’t exist? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-of-jesus/651290/53 "2013-02-28T05:06:57Z")
> [@ruben4ruben](#): > > Wake up, you’ve been fed lies. All of Christmas is a fake. Hebrews, Jews and Christians never celebrated birthdays. That’s why there are **no birth dates** written in the bible. > > . Well, except for the Christian Roman Emperors, more or less true. But that doesn’t mean we can’t celebrate the Birth of Jesus anyway, even if the day is rather likely wrong. ---
**Author:** ![K.S.Masmacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/96bed5/32.png) [@K.S.Masmacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K.S.Masmacho)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-of-jesus/651290/54 "2013-02-28T10:19:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, except for the Christian Roman Emperors, more or less true. But that doesn’t mean we can’t celebrate the Birth of Jesus anyway, even if the day is rather likely wrong. Hear, hear! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birth-of-jesus/651290.md?page=2)