# Birthday age question... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 26, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthday-age-question/620027 "2012-04-26T15:25:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthday-age-question/620027/21 "2012-04-26T20:20:32Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > I don’t see how it could be any other way, unless you arbitrarily chose January 1 as the marker for becoming a year older. But that would lead to the absurd situation of babies born shortly before midnight on December 31 having their “first birthday” almost immediately. We follow this custom with [racehorses](http://www.britishhorseracing.com/goracing/racing/racehorses/life/default.asp) in order to simplify the paperwork for the official age categories in which they compete. This is why the breeding of racehorses is deliberately scheduled so foals won’t be born late in the calendar year. We wouldn’t want to go down that road with humans. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthday-age-question/620027/22 "2012-04-26T20:24:01Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > I’d translate the way those Asian cultures count as “being in their Xth year”; I’d like to know whether that’s literally how they put it. In Hindi/Urdu a common phrase is “to be of X years [X _saal ki honaa_]”, even though X is typically counted in current rather than elapsed years. I don’t think they use the ordinal form of numerals (“Xth”) for age. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthday-age-question/620027/23 "2012-04-26T21:55:26Z")
Actually, people sometimes use a “beginning of the year” convention in casual conversation - “so and so was born in 1960” … “oh, so they’re 52, just like this other person”. Nobody wants to worry about so and so’s actual birthdate at this point, and it seems unwieldy to say “51 or 52” or “52 this year”. ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthday-age-question/620027/24 "2012-04-26T22:04:02Z")
In Viet Nam, they told me they counted a newborn as one year old because of the time in the womb (rounded up I guess), and not because of elapsed years vs. current years. Interestingly, they generally count another year on Tet rather than birthdays, because often people, especially in the countryside, don’t remember when their birthdays are. I joke with them that since I was born six days before Tet, I was two years old before I was a week old. ---
**Author:** ![xnylder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbce88/32.png) [@xnylder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xnylder)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthday-age-question/620027/25 "2012-04-27T00:10:35Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Traditionally, in Korean culture and I suspect in a lot of East Asian cultures, you are age 1 the day you are born. You advance your age by one each new year (the lunar one, not January 1). So, a baby born on New Year’s Eve would be 2 on their second day of life. > > These days, younger Koreans count their birthdays (on the western calendar). So, they’re age 1 on the day they’re born, and turn 2 on their next birthday. > > While some amusing arguments can occur (and I’ve been in them 😃 ), they come down to how one answers “how old are you?”. Americans answer with how many whole years have past since they were born. Koreans either answer with how many birthdays they’ve had (counting the day they were born as their first birthday) or answer with how many (lunar calendar) years they’ve been alive in. These different systems are also used in Japan. This leads to some confusion about the age of anime characters - a character who says she’s 16 could (by the Western standard) be 14, 15, or 16 depending on when her birthday is and how she counts years! ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthday-age-question/620027/26 "2012-04-27T00:30:51Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > So, I consulted the sources cited in the SSR and went down the rabbit hole of “Why do you advance in age on the day before your birthday?” > > […] > > Honestly, I not sure what the hell is going on in this, except it does seem that they did _not_ overrule the day-before-your-birthday aspect of the case. You and me neither. I can understand the bit about fractions of days not counting, but surely that is not justification for becoming 21 the day before your 21st birthday! Even if you were born at 00:00:00 (on the 24 hour clock) on April 27 2012 (or whenever), you still won’t be 21 until April 27 2033. There’s no “fraction of a day” to discount. The system of celebrating your birthday on the actual day inherently weeds out the fractions - if you were born at 23:30 on April 27, you celebrate you birthday from 00:00 on April 27. The only possible justification I can think of is time zones - when it turns midnight on April 27 in, say, Hawaii (UTC -10), it’s already midnight on April 28 in Kiribati (UTC +14). But I’m sure these laws date from long before the International Date Line was conceived off. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthday-age-question/620027/27 "2012-04-27T00:47:44Z")
Jim - born 23:59:59, Jan. 1, 2012 John - born 00:00:00, Jan. 2, 2012. Joan - born 23:59:59, Jan. 2, 2012 Jim turns 1 year old on Jan. 1, 2013. John, who is 1 second younger than Jim, does not turn 1 until the next day. Joan who is only 1 second shy of being a day older that John turns 1 the same day as John. When you start rounding, truncating, flooring, and ceiling, you end up with these things. The method you use to approximate is arbitrary within a wide variety of reasonable options. Just because you’re used to doing it a certain way doesn’t make it the ‘right’ way to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthday-age-question/620027/28 "2012-04-27T01:10:15Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > When you start rounding, truncating, flooring, and ceiling, you end up with these things. The method you use to approximate is arbitrary within a wide variety of reasonable options. Yes, but it seems to me that this “day before” thing is neither rounding nor truncating nor flooring nor ceiling. It’s fudging. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthday-age-question/620027/29 "2012-04-27T01:17:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > there have been a handful of people who’ve been alive in three centuries. An a sizable armful who’ve been alive in two millennia. ---
**Author:** ![svd678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@svd678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/svd678)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthday-age-question/620027/30 "2012-04-27T02:26:51Z")
We occasionally use an expression like “soandso is in his 80th year.” He isn’t 80 years old until his next birthday. I wonder if that isn’t the reason for the Asian calculation - a baby is in his first year as soon as he’s born, not one year old. ---
**Author:** ![Cub\_Mistress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea666f/32.png) [@Cub\_Mistress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cub_Mistress)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthday-age-question/620027/31 "2012-04-27T02:47:00Z")
When I worked as a secretary for our local jail, there was a woman from the State whose sole job was to check the jailbook ( a record of all persons booked into the jail) for anyone who might have been placed into a regular jail cell who was under 18. She told me a story of some kid who went on a rampage on the eve of his 18th birthday, on the theory he woldn’t be 18 until 2:00 pm on the next day. Wrong! He was charged and tossed into Big Boy Jail so fast it made his head spin! ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthday-age-question/620027/32 "2012-04-27T04:25:17Z")
> [@xnylder](#): > > These different systems are also used in Japan. This leads to some confusion about the age of anime characters - a character who says she’s 16 could (by the Western standard) be 14, 15, or 16 depending on when her birthday is and how she counts years! Do you have an example? Japan dumped the traditional way of counting years in the late 19th century. It can be an issue when dealing with historical figures and sources, but that’s pretty much it. I can’t think of any reason why an anime character would have to introduce themselves using the old system. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthday-age-question/620027/33 "2012-04-27T05:03:42Z")
I had to explain age to my daughter last month. I told her it was how many birthdays she’d had. “You’re 3 because you’ve had 3 birthdays. Next week you’ll be 4 because it will be your birthday again. And next month your brother will turn 1 because it will be his birthday for the first time.” We’ll discuss her little friend Brianna only having a birthday every fourth year when it comes up. Dick Clark only had 82 birthdays. ---
**Author:** ![kferr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71e660/32.png) [@kferr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kferr)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthday-age-question/620027/34 "2012-04-27T11:09:47Z")
This sounds like the programming language argument about if it’s better to index arrays starting from 0 or 1. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthday-age-question/620027/35 "2012-04-27T12:10:22Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > It’s called counting age in _current_ years, rather than in _elapsed_ years as in the typical Western system. This sounds like the distinction between _ordinal_ and _cardinal_ numbers, with Westerners giving a person’s age as a cardinal number (how many years they’ve been alive) and Easterners giving it as an ordinal number (which year of their life they’re in). ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthday-age-question/620027/36 "2012-04-27T13:33:21Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > In Hindi/Urdu a common phrase is “to be of X years [X _saal ki honaa_]”, even though X is typically counted in current rather than elapsed years. I don’t think they use the ordinal form of numerals (“Xth”) for age. OK, but still, the form they use is very different from either the Spanish or the English forms; the mental concepts are different. Numerals vs ordinals was, frankly, what I cared about the least. > [@yabob](#): > > Actually, people sometimes use a “beginning of the year” convention in casual conversation - “so and so was born in 1960” … “oh, so they’re 52, just like this other person”. Nobody wants to worry about so and so’s actual birthdate at this point, and it seems unwieldy to say “51 or 52” or “52 this year”. In Spain, someone born in the same year as you is your _quinto_\*, but I have never found an English dictionary which included that meaning, they always translate it by its numeric meaning (“fifth”). Do you guys know an English word with that meaning? - Someone who would have been a draftee in the same year as you; when the draft was first established, it took one-fifth of every year’s men of appropriate age, so draftees became known as _quintos_. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthday-age-question/620027/37 "2012-04-27T14:40:29Z")
> [@kferr](#): > > This sounds like the programming language argument about if it’s better to index arrays starting from 0 or 1. What argument? It’s better to start at 0. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthday-age-question/620027/38 "2012-04-27T14:42:34Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > In Spain, someone born in the same year as you is your _quinto_\*, but I have never found an English dictionary which included that meaning, they always translate it by its numeric meaning (“fifth”). Do you guys know an English word with that meaning? > > - Someone who would have been a draftee in the same year as you; when the draft was first established, it took one-fifth of every year’s men of appropriate age, so draftees became known as _quintos_. That’s kind of like asking kids what grade they are in at school. But I don’t know an English word that conveys the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthday-age-question/620027/39 "2012-04-27T15:11:27Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > For that matter, there have been a handful of people who’ve been alive in three centuries. Would you say that they were three centuries old? You do if you count them the same way the Church counts how many days Jesus was dead. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Carnacki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5e925/32.png) [@Carnacki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnacki)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthday-age-question/620027/40 "2012-04-27T15:11:40Z")
I’m reminded of a lame joke: How many birthdays does the average person have? Answer: One. All the rest are birthday anniversaries. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthday-age-question/620027.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthday-age-question/620027.md?page=3)