# Birther Mania **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 11, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051 "2010-05-11T14:58:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/81 "2010-05-13T02:24:54Z")
> [@some total loony](#): > > Barack Obama’s book, The Audacity of Hope, translates in Indonesian to: Jihad, From Jakarta to the White House Someone please tell me that this is true. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/82 "2010-05-13T02:26:23Z")
Frank, let me ask you an easier question than you asked me. Let’s say there’s a piece of floating equipment used to drill oil wells. It floats out to where the well will be drilled, and then these legs come out of the bottom of it and touch the ocean floor, at which point the thing doesn’t float any more, it’s just sitting on the legs. It drills the oil well, and then the legs come back up and it floats away. Is this thing a “vessel” for purposes of the Jones Act? This question is easier than the one you asked me because there are hundreds of cases on point, discussing what is and is not a vessel. So, yes or no question-------come on Frank, what’s your answer? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/83 "2010-05-13T02:30:17Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > It’s not a yes or no question. It’s a yes, no, or how the fuck should I know question. My answer is how the fuck should I know.. I read your post, shit for brains. Are you actually saying that you are that stupid? That you pay so little attention to current events and to evidence that “how the fuck should I know” is actually and seriously an honest answer for you? Thank heavens that you’re not my tax lawyer. “How the fuck should I know,” indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/84 "2010-05-13T02:35:28Z")
Out of curiosity, which premise is your net persona not sure of, **Rand Rover**? That a person born in America to an American mother is a natural born citizen? Or that Obama is such a person? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/85 "2010-05-13T02:37:57Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Out of curiosity, which premise is your net persona not sure of, **Rand Rover**? That a person born in America to an American mother is a natural born citizen? Or that Obama is such a person? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/86 "2010-05-13T02:38:12Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Frank, let me ask you an easier question than you asked me. It’s not, in fact, an easier question. The question of the constitutional eligibility of a candidate for President of the U. S. rests only on two points: one must be 35 years of age, and one must be a natural born citizen of the United States. Both of these points are explicitly and clearly stated in the Constitution. Any citizen can read and understand the Constitution. Oddly enough, tax lawyers can read and understand maritime law. Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/87 "2010-05-13T02:38:58Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I read your post, shit for brains. Are you actually saying that you are that stupid? That you pay so little attention to current events and to evidence that “how the fuck should I know” is actually and seriously an honest answer for you? > > Thank heavens that you’re not my tax lawyer. “How the fuck should I know,” indeed. So is that thing a vessel or not, buddy? Simple yes or no question. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/88 "2010-05-13T02:42:53Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Well, considering that the presidency is the highest office in the land, I think it’s more accurate to say that Obama licked John McCain to get high. I think it was [the other way around](http://www.lustload.com/lib-ui/img/photos/obama-john-mccain-tongue.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/89 "2010-05-13T02:43:42Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > It’s not, in fact, an easier question. The question of the constitutional eligibility of a candidate for President of the U. S. rests only on two points: one must be 35 years of age, and one must be a natural born citizen of the United States. Both of these points are explicitly and clearly stated in the Constitution. > > Any citizen can read and understand the Constitution. Oddly enough, tax lawyers can read and understand maritime law. Go figure. First, you got the requirements fucked up a bit, smart guy. There’s also a 14-year US residency requirement, and back in the dizzay the POTUS didn’t have to be a NBC if he was a US citizen when the constitution was ratified. So, Frank, please share with the rest of us, since you seem to know: what does “natural born citizen” mean? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/90 "2010-05-13T02:44:51Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > So is that thing a vessel or not, buddy? Simple yes or no question. Barack Obama was born, in Hawaii, in 1961. Is Barack Obama constitutionally eligible to be President of the United States? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/91 "2010-05-13T02:48:08Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Barack Obama was born, in Hawaii, in 1961. > > Is Barack Obama constitutionally eligible to be President of the United States? Good question. It depends on the definition of “natural born citizen.” You seem to know that definition–why don’t you share with us? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/92 "2010-05-13T02:50:24Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Good question. It depends on the definition of “natural born citizen.” You seem to know that definition–why don’t you share with us? Barack Obama was born, in Hawaii, in 1961. Is Barack Obama constitutionally eligible to be President of the United States? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/93 "2010-05-13T02:52:59Z")
Is that jack-up oil rig thing a “vessel” under the Jones Act? Surely everyone knows what a vessel is, right? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/94 "2010-05-13T02:54:19Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Is that jack-up oil rig thing a “vessel” under the Jones Act? Surely everyone knows what a vessel is, right? Barack Obama was born, in Hawaii, in 1961. Is Barack Obama constitutionally eligible to be President of the United States? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/95 "2010-05-13T02:55:25Z")
In 2004 the two Republican senators from Oklahoma- James Inhofe and Don Nickels, along with Mary Landrieu (D-LA) proposed the Natural Born Citizen Act: > [@](#): > > Natural Born Citizen Act (Introduced in Senate) > > S 2128 IS > 108th CONGRESS > > 2d Session > > S. 2128 > To define the term `natural born Citizen’ as used in the Constitution of the United States to establish eligibility for the Office of President. > IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES > > ## February 25, 2004 Mr. NICKLES (for himself, Ms. LANDRIEU, and Mr. INHOFE) introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary > > A BILL > To define the term `natural born Citizen’ as used in the Constitution of the United States to establish eligibility for the Office of President. > Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, > > SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. > > This Act may be cited as the `Natural Born Citizen Act’. > > SEC. 2. DEFINITION OF `NATURAL BORN CITIZEN’. > > (a) IN GENERAL- Congress finds and declares that the term `natural born Citizen’ in Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of the Constitution of the United States means– > > (1) any person born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof; and > > (2) any person born outside the United States– > > (A) who derives citizenship at birth from a United States citizen parent or parents pursuant to an Act of Congress; or > > (B) who is adopted by 18 years of age by a United States citizen parent or parents who are otherwise eligible to transmit citizenship to a biological child pursuant to an Act of Congress. > > (b) UNITED STATES- In this section, the term `United States’, when used in a geographic sense, means the several States of the United States and the District of Columbia. It died in committee. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/96 "2010-05-13T03:00:11Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Barack Obama was born, in Hawaii, in 1961. > > Is Barack Obama constitutionally eligible to be President of the United States? Yes. Assuming he’s a natural born citizen. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/97 "2010-05-13T03:00:54Z")
Christ. **Rand Rover** is here. I get bored with one dimensional highjacks. They bore me, so I am going to call out to the board to bring in **Der Tris** and **Dan Blather** to extol the benefits of atheism regarding citizenship and **kanicbird** and **lekat** to tell us how we need to touch the other side in order to understand residency. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/98 "2010-05-13T03:02:17Z")
How am I the one hijacking exactly? I think Frank’s the hijacker–I just asked gonzo for a cite (which we’ll never see) and Frank went full metal retard on my ass. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/99 "2010-05-13T03:04:26Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > How am I the one hijacking exactly? cite? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/100 "2010-05-13T03:08:53Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > So is that thing a vessel or not, buddy? Simple yes or no question. Why are you talking about Chewbacca? The answer to your question is no, by the way, since it isn’t transporting any cargo or passengers. Now answer this and quit weaseling : Do you think it’s plausible or likely that Barack Obama was born outside the United States and that a large scale conspiracy has been involved to conceal this from the American People? Your self-serving profession of a lack of certainty about the precise definition of a “Natural Born Citizen” notwithstanding, are you satisified beyond any reasonable questionat all that Barack Obama was born in the United States? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051.md?page=6)