# Birther Mania **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 11, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051 "2010-05-11T14:58:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/141 "2010-05-13T16:14:45Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Given the importance of the term “naturally born” I’m starting to wonder if Obama was delivered by c-section. maybe we need an autopsy on his mother. It’s the Macduff Gambit! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/142 "2010-05-13T16:19:02Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Why are you and Frank so interested in what I think about these Birther-related issues? > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Why have you been so reluctant to give a straight forward answer? Because he enjoys watching you spin up. Honestly, **Dio** , you can’t possibly believe that he’s worth the effort. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/143 "2010-05-13T16:26:57Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > Christ. **Rand Rover** is here. > > I get bored with one dimensional highjacks. They bore me, so I am going to call out to the board to bring in **Der Tris** and **Dan Blather** to extol the benefits of atheism regarding citizenship and **kanicbird** and **lekat** to tell us how we need to touch the other side in order to understand residency. Cool, I made it to the pit. Good thing monkeys don’t have good aim. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/144 "2010-05-13T16:47:49Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Look, morons, you guys sure nake it hard to educate your dumb asses. I don’t know whether I am a NBC (and I was born in the US to a US mother and father, at least AFAIK). I love the irony of those two sentences in succession, rather like saying “Look idiots, you sure nake it hard to educate your dumb asses. I don’t know whether I’m a male (and I have a penis and testicles and Y chromosomes).” ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/145 "2010-05-13T17:01:28Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Look, morons, you guys sure nake it hard to educate your dumb asses. I don’t know whether I am a NBC (and I was born in the US to a US mother and father, at least AFAIK). If Frank had asked me that same repeated question about any other POTUS, I would give the same answer. I don’t stay up at night worrying about whether Obama is an NBC or not, and I have no reason to doubt that he is. Ya, ya, we get it - you can’t be absolutely sure that you’re not in a “matrix” and we’re all just brains in jars connected by wires. Go and have yourself some more sodey pops, and have a nap. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/146 "2010-05-13T18:45:46Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > Oh, shut the fuck up, **Merijeek**. A point to make? **RR** is clearly on this board to troll in general and in this thread in particular. And the mods continue to have their thumbs so far up their asses it’s tickling their brain. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/147 "2010-05-13T18:58:23Z")
Y’know, you could have just said that in post #124, **'jeek** (may I call you **'jeek**? Don’t answer that; it turns out that I don’t care :p). Seeing that fast response from **Monkey with a Gun** made me think there was some history between the two of you, and as an observer, I wasn’t clear on who you were talking about. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/148 "2010-05-13T19:06:14Z")
[New Law lets Hawaii Ignore Repeated Demands for Obama Birth Certificate](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2010/05/13/2010-05-13_aloha_birthers_hawaii_law_lets_state_ignore_repeated_demands_for_obama_birth_cer.html) ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/149 "2010-05-13T19:11:51Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > Those 2, they fuck you up, > They may not mean to, but they do. _standing ovation_ It’s been too long since we’ve had a reference to Philip Larkin in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/150 "2010-05-13T19:17:56Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Barack Obama was born, in Hawaii, in 1961. Once, for thirty minutes… ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/151 "2010-05-13T19:26:42Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Y’know, you could have just said that in post #124, **'jeek** (may I call you **'jeek**? Don’t answer that; it turns out that I don’t care :p). Seeing that fast response from **Monkey with a Gun** made me think there was some history between the two of you, and as an observer, I wasn’t clear on who you were talking about. If there is, I’m not aware of it. The idea of a monkey with a gun reminds me of [http://www.cracked.com/blog/so-you-need-to-disarm-a-chimpanzee/](http://www.cracked.com/blog/so-you-need-to-disarm-a-chimpanzee/). (Discworld fans need not correct me) I guess I thought that the person to whom I was referring was clear enough. Apparently not…though maybe it helped flush out those with a guilty conscience? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/152 "2010-05-13T19:58:38Z")
We need to tell SCOTUS to find new jobs–the SDMB can just interpret the constitution from now on. Sampiro, since you have NBC all figured out, why don’t you tell us exactly what a “law respecting the establishment of religion” is. And then please inform us exactly when the right to bear arms is infringed. And let us know the correct extent of the commerce clause. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/153 "2010-05-13T20:05:27Z")
The ironic thing is that some folks in this thread are displaying the exact mentality that the birthers use–which is that “the law means exactly what I think it means, and I have completely foreclosed the possibility of anything to the contrary.” You guys and the birthers are like tax protesters that read laws all askew to satisfy their own interpretations. I think it’s OK to take a stab at determining what the law means for yourself, but acting like that is the final word is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![dhkendall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9adbd/32.png) [@dhkendall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dhkendall)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/154 "2010-05-13T20:08:34Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > They’re on the same ticket, but they’re technically a separate election. That’s actually VERY technical because, technically, you’re voting for electors, not directly for candidates, and the electors are pledged to the given collective ticket, but ultra-technically. The VP is still elected independently of the President. You can’t, for instance, vote Obama for Prez and Sarah Palin for veep, because you’re never really voting directly for the candidates anyway, but for electors pledged to a combined ticket. Legally (though this never happens, and it would be considered _extremely_ dishonorable among electors) electors could split their vote between a Dem Prez and a GOP Veep. The elections are, for pedantic, hyper-legal purposes, separate and independent. > > Originally, VP candidates didn’t even exist. Whatever POTUS candidate got the second most votes was VP. It was an experiment that didn’t work too well. You ended up wiyth VP’s who hated the President and who were not too concerned about his health, much less his politcal well-being. > > ETA it looks like you figured it out while I was typing anyway. Being a Canadian, I still don’t understand your system much, but let me make a slight hijack (the way this thread is going, a hijack is frankly welcomed) and ask: Let’s say I was a member of the electoral college from Missouri\*. And I made a bold pledge with my votes, something which no other elector has done, let’s say I do pledge (publicly) my votes to Obama for Prez and Palin for Veep. Would the Missouri ballot have to have choices for “McCain/Palin”, “Obama/Biden” and “Obama/Palin” because of me? - or does this shit only fly in Nebraska and Maine where they have split votes? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/155 "2010-05-13T20:16:45Z")
Doesn’t work that way. The Electoral College does not have standing members. In each state, voters vote for a slate of electors already pledged to a particular candidate and his running mate (not for the candidate himself, although the ballot may be printed that way). What looks like a direct national election is really 51 simultaneous indirect state+DC elections. The members of each slate are chosen by their state parties, usually as a gesture for their long service and dedication to the party. That, and the pledge, which is legally required in some states, make it almost unthinkable for a so-called “faithless elector” to exist, but it’s happened. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/156 "2010-05-13T20:32:59Z")
> [@dhkendall](#): > > Being a Canadian, I still don’t understand your system much, but let me make a slight hijack (the way this thread is going, a hijack is frankly welcomed) and ask: > > Let’s say I was a member of the electoral college from Missouri\*. And I made a bold pledge with my votes, something which no other elector has done, let’s say I do pledge (publicly) my votes to Obama for Prez and Palin for Veep. Would the Missouri ballot have to have choices for “McCain/Palin”, “Obama/Biden” and “Obama/Palin” because of me? No. In theory, you might be able to get that combination listed on the ballot by jumping through the same hoops required for non-duopoly parties to get on the ballot. (Or you might not; many states have rules against the same candidate running under multiple party lines. New York is unusual in that it has a significant Conservative Party that typically nominates whoever the Republicans are running but may refuse to do so if the factions have a falling-out.) In any case, that doesn’t really matter – as a matter of law, the Electoral College chooses the Vice President independently from its choice of the President, notwithstanding the fact that they are extremely unlikely to cross party lines. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/157 "2010-05-13T20:47:40Z")
[quote=“Rand\_Rover, post:98, topic:539051”] How am I the one hijacking exactly? I think Frank’s the hijacker–I just asked gonzo for a cite (which we’ll never see) and Frank went full metal retard on my ass.[/QUOTE [http://talkers.com/online/?p=71](http://talkers.com/online/?p=71) Presently 1 and 3. Hannity slips in. but Beck has a longer time slot ,so he is more listened to than Hannity. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/158 "2010-05-13T20:47:58Z")
I’m prepared to agree that Rand Rover is a not a citizen of the U.S., just to eliminate the minuscule chance of him ever becoming president. I mean, geez… Americans would be _dreaming_ of a Palin administration after that. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/159 "2010-05-13T21:11:22Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’m prepared to agree that Rand Rover is a not a citizen of the U.S., just to eliminate the minuscule chance of him ever becoming president. I mean, geez… Americans would be _dreaming_ of a Palin administration after that. I don’t know. Zero taxes and all the burning buildings and cars you can warm your mitts at? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/160 "2010-05-13T21:17:45Z")
Tempting in the short run, I’m sure… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051.md?page=9)