# Birther Mania **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 11, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051 "2010-05-11T14:58:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/161 "2010-05-13T21:18:42Z")
> [@Rand Rover](#): > > The ironic thing is that some folks in this thread are displaying the exact mentality that the birthers use–which is that “the law means exactly what I think it means, and I have completely foreclosed the possibility of anything to the contrary.” So asserting that Barack Obama is legally qualified to be President of the US reflects the **exact same** mentality as asserting that Barack Obama is **not** legally qualified to be President of the US. Because both assertions are completely foreclosing contrary possibilities. Got it. Well, that’s convenient. **Rand Rover** , I think it’s simply despicable that you rape puppies and wangle promotion by giving your boss blowjobs. If you attempt to assert that on the contrary, you do **not** rape puppies or give blowjobs to your boss, then you’re displaying the exact same mentality shown in my assertions about you, and your assertions are no more credible than mine. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/162 "2010-05-13T21:55:44Z")
That’s very astute and nuanced thinking there Kimstu. Well done. It’s not “making an assertion” that is equivalent. The equivalency is in acting like one has the ability to know absolutely what the law means and any contrary interpretations are automatically invalid due only to their contrariness. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/163 "2010-05-13T21:59:55Z")
Has there even been a citizenship case where someone born in a U.S. state of a citizen mother had his own citizenship called into question? Well, _seriously_ called into question, by someone with a good argument and not a loopy agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/164 "2010-05-13T22:11:53Z")
There’s never been a case interpreting “natural born citizen.” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/165 "2010-05-13T22:17:38Z")
So, I’ll take that as a no - that in any other circumstances, Barack Obama’s citizenship would not be questioned and there is no precedent establishing why it _should_ be questioned. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/166 "2010-05-13T22:45:31Z")
As a follow-up, I guess someone could compile a list of the presidents and vice-presidents (since eligibility to hold the second job is dependent on eligibility to hold the first) and check on their parents. Having one non-natural citizen parent doesn’t seem to bring one’s own citizenship and eligibility into question (i.e. Spiro Agnew), but maybe one of the past executives had a case more analogous to Obama’s. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/167 "2010-05-13T23:29:47Z")
Nope. All our previous Chief Executives have been white. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/168 "2010-05-13T23:39:20Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > We need to tell SCOTUS to find new jobs–the SDMB can just interpret the constitution from now on. Sampiro, since you have NBC all figured out, why don’t you tell us exactly what a “law respecting the establishment of religion” is. And then please inform us exactly when the right to bear arms is infringed. And let us know the correct extent of the commerce clause. Thanks. You act like there is no jurisprudence on any of this. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/169 "2010-05-13T23:56:11Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > That’s very astute and nuanced thinking there Kimstu. Well done. > > It’s not “making an assertion” that is equivalent. The equivalency is in acting like one has the ability to know absolutely what the law means and any contrary interpretations are automatically invalid due only to their contrariness. Let me say first that the definition of NBC is not really the issue at hand and is not the ostensible point of contention raised by Birthers. Their contention is that Barack Obama was not born in the US. That’s the point you’re avoiding addressing like the plague. The NBC definition is really an irrelevant misdirection on your part. Having said that, you know damn well that there is no possibility that the Supreme Court would ever rule that a person born in the US to an American born mother is not a natural born citizen. None. Zero. It would not ever happen. The possibilities that it would or would not happen are not equivalent. You’re not stupid. You know this. You know you’re full of shit. You just seem to think that everyone here (including the other lawyers) are idiots who are going to be befuddled and intimidated by your ridiculous obfuscations and evasions. Why can’t you just answer my question, Randy. Do you think the allegations that Barack Obama was born outside the US has any plausibility? Yes or no? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/170 "2010-05-14T00:05:28Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > Once, for thirty minutes… No, you’re thinking about Ray Gun. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/171 "2010-05-14T00:09:44Z")
> [@descamisado](#): > > That shit is as phony as a three dollar bill. There’s no such thing as an “African” race. Spoken by someone who’s never watched the Olympics. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/172 "2010-05-14T01:30:37Z")
[quote=“gonzomax, post:157, topic:539051”] [quote=“Rand\_Rover, post:98, topic:539051”] How am I the one hijacking exactly? I think Frank’s the hijacker–I just asked gonzo for a cite (which we’ll never see) and Frank went full metal retard on my ass. [/QUOTE [http://talkers.com/online/?p=71](http://talkers.com/online/?p=71) Presently 1 and 3. Hannity slips in. but Beck has a longer time slot ,so he is more listened to than Hannity.[/QUOTE] UH WHAT? I asked for a cite that Beck and Rush were repeating Birther bullshit. Your link to ratings doesn’t say anything about that. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/173 "2010-05-14T01:34:50Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Why can’t you just answer my question, Randy. Do you think the allegations that Barack Obama was born outside the US has any plausibility? Yes or no? Dio, you have issues, buddy (I mean, besides the hang-up about your daughters ever having sex ever). I’ve already said in this thread that (i) birthers are idiots and (ii) I will believe anyone’s claim about where they are born unless I have evidence to the contrary, and I don’t have any evidence to the contrary w/r/t Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/174 "2010-05-14T02:05:01Z")
> [@Rand Rover](#): > > The equivalency is in acting like one has the ability to know absolutely what the law means and any contrary interpretations are automatically invalid due only to their contrariness. If one has a rock-solid legal consensus about how the law applies **in a particular case** , then yes, any contrary interpretations of how the law applies to that case **are** automatically invalid due only to their contrariness. There is absolutely no reasonable doubt among US jurists that Barack Obama is legally qualified by the circumstances of his birth to be President of the United States, despite some theoretical fuzzy spots in the Constitutional technical term “natural born citizen”. Any claims that there **does** exist reasonable doubt from a legal standpoint about whether Obama is qualified to be POTUS are therefore invalid. It’s ridiculous to try to claim any kind of logical equivalency between acknowledging a recognized legal fact and trying to wiggle out of acknowledging it by inventing far-fetched legal interpretations that don’t stand up in any court. Just because no interpretation of any law is 100% guaranteed immutable for all time doesn’t mean that all interpretations have to be equally accommodating towards contrary views, or that all contrary views are equally worthy of serious consideration. People who are convinced that Obama’s birth legally qualifies him to be President, and that any contradictory interpretations are invalid, are supported by the entire body of recognized law on this issue. People who are convinced that Obama’s birth may legally disqualify him from being President, and that any contradictory interpretations are invalid, are irrational loons divorced from the reality of recognized jurisprudence. Those two viewpoints are not in any way equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/175 "2010-05-14T02:13:55Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Sampiro, since you have NBC all figured out, why don’t you tell us exactly what a “law respecting the establishment of religion” is. And then please inform us exactly when the right to bear arms is infringed. And let us know the correct extent of the commerce clause. Thanks. I’m not sure where I claimed that, but as it comes from somebody who doesn’t know if he himself is a NBC it’s not worth looking back. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/176 "2010-05-14T02:53:20Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I don’t know whether I am a NBC (and I was born in the US to a US mother and father, at least AFAIK). Well, that means you really are the dumbass piece of shit you act like when you post here. Frankly, I’ve always been willing to allow you were just some pathetic turd who thought it was fun getting **Dio** worked into a froth and not taken your lame bullshit too seriously. However, now that I realize you are a **puppy raping, boss-blowing pathetic turd** … that changes the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/177 "2010-05-14T03:04:52Z")
Guys, if you need me, I’ll be over in the corner crying. Idiots saying bad things about me really does a number. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/178 "2010-05-14T03:39:49Z")
> [@Rand Rover](#): > > Guys, if you need me Sorry to dash your hopes, but nobody needs a puppy-raping, boss-blowing troll. Well, on second thoughts, maybe your boss does. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/179 "2010-05-14T03:41:16Z")
To be honest, I’m more of a cat person. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051/180 "2010-05-14T03:46:21Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > To be honest… First time for everything I suppose. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-mania/539051.md?page=10)