# Birther U.S. Army officer to be court-martialed **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 15, 2010, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-u-s-army-officer-to-be-court-martialed/536157 "2010-04-15T02:33:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-u-s-army-officer-to-be-court-martialed/536157/121 "2010-12-17T22:25:37Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Wow. :eek: :mad: > I’ve been saying America’s political climate has moved beyond tragedy to farce. > But I’ve run out of laughter by now. Reading this story, I don’t know whether to cry or to throw up. > Am I the only Doper who feels this way? This is not farce. It **is** , however, the stuff from which farce is **made**. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-u-s-army-officer-to-be-court-martialed/536157/122 "2012-04-06T16:48:17Z")
Another such case, this time involving a Marine sergeant: [http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/06/justice/marine-obama/index.html?hpt=hp\_t3](http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/06/justice/marine-obama/index.html?hpt=hp_t3) ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-u-s-army-officer-to-be-court-martialed/536157/123 "2012-04-06T18:47:57Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Another such case, this time involving a Marine sergeant: [http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/06/justice/marine-obama/index.html?hpt=hp\_t3](http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/06/justice/marine-obama/index.html?hpt=hp_t3) From the linked article (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > In a January 26 post to the Armed Forces Tea Party Facebook page, Stein called Obama a liar. Two days later, **he said the president is “the ‘Domestic Enemy’ our oath speaks about.”** He’s toast. No USMC General is gonna let that slide. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-u-s-army-officer-to-be-court-martialed/536157/124 "2012-04-06T19:14:15Z")
And it’s not just a one-shot moment of blowing off steam. This guy has shown repeatedly a desire to self-destruct. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-u-s-army-officer-to-be-court-martialed/536157/125 "2012-04-06T19:41:32Z")
What do you expect when the Armed Forces Radio Network tells its troops that their President is a common street thug who might not be have been legitimately elected because there’s a chance he isn’t even a U.S.citizen? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-u-s-army-officer-to-be-court-martialed/536157/126 "2012-04-06T20:29:50Z")
When did Armed Forces Radio do that? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-u-s-army-officer-to-be-court-martialed/536157/127 "2012-04-06T20:44:39Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > When did Armed Forces Radio do that? When they broadcast the Rush Limbaugh Show. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-u-s-army-officer-to-be-court-martialed/536157/128 "2012-04-06T23:07:48Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > A soldier has no right to refuse a lawful order. Well, no legal right. They may seek to do so for personal reasons though, presumably. Anyway, I think the most recent case shouldn’t be dismissed for expressing his opinion. If he were a member of the Secret Service, I could see the conflict of interest would have serious repercussions, but it shouldn’t affect how he performs his role as sergeant. I am not a member of the military though. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-u-s-army-officer-to-be-court-martialed/536157/129 "2012-04-07T00:06:46Z")
If the comments are indicative of anything, it’s really poor judgment. I don’t see why kicking him out is a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-u-s-army-officer-to-be-court-martialed/536157/130 "2012-04-07T00:37:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > When they broadcast the Rush Limbaugh Show. Although I don’t listen to Limbaugh and consider him a tiresome blowhard, I really don’t have a problem with AFR carrying his show. He’s popular in some circles, and no one reasonably believes that AFR endorses the views of every single commentator and pundit whose opinions they broadcast. It’s a free country. Why not have a diversity of opinion on AFR? ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-u-s-army-officer-to-be-court-martialed/536157/131 "2012-04-07T02:02:36Z")
Plus, it’s not like AFRN is the only source of news/info available to the U.S. Armed Forces. All domestic bases have full cable access, the same stuff you and I can get in our cable packages, and most overseas bases (Italy, Germany, Japan, Korea, etc) also have ready access to the internet, and U.S. service members can read online or stream any news source they can type into the address bar of their internet browser. So AFRN, or its choice of programming, isn’t to blame. ---
**Author:** ![picker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/picker/32/13969_2.png) [@picker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-u-s-army-officer-to-be-court-martialed/536157/132 "2012-04-07T02:27:12Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > …in negotiations to trade five unchaperoned minutes in the Smithsonian to Colombia in exchange for lifetime mountains of blow… Why would the Colombians want five minutes in the Smithsonian? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-u-s-army-officer-to-be-court-martialed/536157/133 "2012-04-07T02:46:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What do you expect when the Armed Forces Radio Network tells its troops that their President is a common street thug who might not be have been legitimately elected because there’s a chance he isn’t even a U.S.citizen? > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > When did Armed Forces Radio do that? > [@Czarcasm](#): > > When they broadcast the Rush Limbaugh Show. So, broadcasting the shows of a popular blowhard is, in some way, “telling” the troops lies about the president? The U.S. armed forces have a very long tradition of tolerating silliness if it is not detrimental to morale. Adrian Cronauer noted, after the movie Good Morning, Vietnam came out, that he actually suffered none of the harrassment that appeared in Mitch Markowitz’s script for the movie. Bill Mauldin, won a Pulitzer for Up Front in 1944, in which he noted that the only censorship he ever suffered was when, on a couple of occasions, he inadvertantly drew pictures of new weapons that were a bit too accurate in their depiction. When he later wrote Back Home, he noted that he was often censored by his new bosses and clients in the domestic newspapers in ways that he never experienced drawing for _Stars and Stripes_. I suspect that the military treats entertainers the same way, today, and, unless someone has examples of the AFRST censoring or suppressing material from Left leaning entertainers and pundits, I see no reason to conclude that the troops are being fed a diet rich in Right wing bullshit without the hope of counterbalance. I know that NPR is one of the channels that AFSRT provides and I know that Ed Schultz is broadcast in the same way that Rush Limbaugh is. They even broadcast Prairie Home Companion and Keillor spends a huge amount of time and energy lampooning the Right–even including direct attacks on Limbaugh. Claiming that AFN “tells its troops” anything based on the fact that they broadcast Limbaugh’s show–among several others–is not a reality based claim. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-u-s-army-officer-to-be-court-martialed/536157/134 "2012-04-07T02:51:10Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > So, broadcasting the shows of a popular blowhard is, in some way, “telling” the troops lies about the president? > > The U.S. armed forces have a very long tradition of tolerating silliness if it is not detrimental to morale. Adrian Cronauer noted, after the movie Good Morning, Vietnam came out, that he actually suffered none of the harrassment that appeared in Mitch Markowitz’s script for the movie. Bill Mauldin, won a Pulitzer for Up Front in 1944, in which he noted that the only censorship he ever suffered was when, on a couple of occasions, he inadvertantly drew pictures of new weapons that were a bit too accurate in their depiction. When he later wrote Back Home, he noted that he was often censored by his new bosses and clients in the domestic newspapers in ways that he never experienced drawing for _Stars and Stripes_. > > I suspect that the military treats entertainers the same way, today, and, unless someone has examples of the AFRST censoring or suppressing material from Left leaning entertainers and pundits, I see no reason to conclude that the troops are being fed a diet rich in Right wing bullshit without the hope of counterbalance. I know that NPR is one of the channels that AFSRT provides and I know that Ed Schultz is broadcast in the same way that Rush Limbaugh is. They even broadcast Prairie Home Companion and Keillor spends a huge amount of time and energy lampooning the Right–even including direct attacks on Limbaugh. > > Claiming that AFN “tells its troops” anything based on the fact that they broadcast Limbaugh’s show–among several others–is not a reality based claim. Also, while I’m no fan of Limbaugh and think he engages in race-baiting if not actual racism, I don’t think he’s ever insisted that Obama wasn’t a US citizen. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-u-s-army-officer-to-be-court-martialed/536157/135 "2012-04-07T02:53:01Z")
I have no qualms with that Marine getting kicked out. They make it very clear when they go over the UCMJ that you do not talk that way about elected officials, especially if it even sounds kind of like he’s speaking for the military. In what way did he think saying, “I will not obey his orders” were any way ok? If anything, he should get kicked out for being a dumbass. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-u-s-army-officer-to-be-court-martialed/536157/136 "2012-04-07T02:58:30Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Although I don’t listen to Limbaugh and consider him a tiresome blowhard, I really don’t have a problem with AFR carrying his show. He’s popular in some circles, and no one reasonably believes that AFR endorses the views of every single commentator and pundit whose opinions they broadcast. It’s a free country. Why not have a diversity of opinion on AFR? They don’t have to endorse every single thing that is said, but since they pick and choose which shows get aired they certainly must take responsibility for all the crap he has thrown at the Commander-in-Chief. ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-u-s-army-officer-to-be-court-martialed/536157/137 "2012-04-07T03:53:16Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-u-s-army-officer-to-be-court-martialed/536157/138 "2012-04-07T04:37:11Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Bill Mauldin, won a Pulitzer for Up Front in 1944, in which he noted that the only censorship he ever suffered was when, on a couple of occasions, he inadvertantly drew pictures of new weapons that were a bit too accurate in their depiction. When he later wrote Back Home, he noted that he was often censored by his new bosses and clients in the domestic newspapers in ways that he never experienced drawing for _Stars and Stripes_. He still manage to step on some four star toes; I doubt any newspaper editors threaten to throw Mauldin in jail for an editorial cartoon. In his book, _The Brass Ring: A Sort of Memoir_, Bill Mauldin got a free trip to Luxembourg for a discussion about his cartoons with General George S. Patton Sergeant Mauldin has an eye for detail and describes his first glimpse as he walks into General Patton’s office… > [@](#): > > “There he sat, big as life even at that distance. His hair was silver, his face pink, his collar and shoulders sparkled with rings, and an incredible mass of ribbons started around desktop level and spread upward in a flood over his chest to the very top of shoulder, as if preparing to march down his back, too. His face was rugged, with an odd, strangely shapeless outline; his eyes were pale, almost colorless, with a choleric bulge. His small compressed mouthwas sharply downturned at the corners, with a lower lip which suggested a pouting child as much as a no-nonsense martinet.” And the conversation starts… > [@](#): > > “Now then sergeant, about those pictures you draw of those god-awful things you call soldiers. Where did you ever see soldiers like that? You know goddamn well you’re not drawing an accurate representation of the American soldier. You make them look like goddamn bums. No respect for the army, their officers, or themselves. You know well as I do that you can’t have an army without respect for officers. What are you trying to do, incite a goddamn mutiny? You listen to me sergeant, the Russians…” And goes on for a while railing on about the history of discipline and respect for officers to which Maudlin politely listens to and enjoys for 20 minutes. Maudlin finally gets a chance to speak, which states that his cartoons allow for the soldiers to blow off steam and remain focused: > [@](#): > > “…My point is, the soldier is back [from leave] in his foxhole stewing about the officers [who get the Red Cross babes] and thinking he’s got end of the stick…Whether it makes sense or not, the fact is that he feels there’s been an injustice, and if stews long enough about this, or about any other hundreds of things soldiers stew about, he’s not going to think about his job. All right, sir, he picks up his paper and and he reads a letter or sees a cartoon by some other soldier who feels the same way, and he says, ‘Hell, somebody else said it for me,’ and he goes back to his job.” Patton doesn’t seem to understand this line of reasoning. He figures the soldier isn’t being kept busy enough. Whatever the case, Mauldin agrees with Patton that he’s not trying to turn the US Army into a mob. Patton then figures they now have an “understanding,” and the conversation ends on a cordial basis. An abbreviated story of the one-on-one got into Time magazine. When Patton’s aid, Major Bucher reads the story to the General over the phone, Patton laughs when Mauldin states he didn’t change the General’s mind, but blows up when Mauldin states that his mind wasn’t changed by Patton; Patton threatens to throw Mauldin in jail if he ever shows up again in the Third Army. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-u-s-army-officer-to-be-court-martialed/536157/139 "2012-04-07T05:03:58Z")
At the risk of unduly prolonging the hijack, [my favorite example](http://www.v-r-a.org/ppp/GIJoe/pages/_maul50.htm) of Mauldin’s attitude toward Patton and his regs. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-u-s-army-officer-to-be-court-martialed/536157/140 "2012-04-09T02:16:06Z")
> [@OttoDaFe](#): > > At the risk of unduly prolonging the hijack, [my favorite example](http://www.v-r-a.org/ppp/GIJoe/pages/_maul50.htm) of Mauldin’s attitude toward Patton and his regs. Heehee. That’s good. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birther-u-s-army-officer-to-be-court-martialed/536157.md?page=6)