# Birthright citizenship **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 21, 2024, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthright-citizenship/1010575 "2024-11-21T21:17:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2024, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthright-citizenship/1010575/1 "2024-11-21T21:18:00Z")
Trump has said a number of times he wants to end birthright citizenship. I think in the past he thought that the “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” clause might give him the out. Now he has found a new approach. According to a recent news report, he will forbid that passport office from issuing a passport to anyone who cannot prove their parents were in the US legally. Also forbid the Social Security Administration from issuing a card in such a case. Of course he would likely lose any court case, but I think he is prepared to ignore court decisions he doesn’t like since he is immune from prosecution. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2024, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthright-citizenship/1010575/2 "2024-11-21T21:28:38Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > … According to a recent news report, he will forbid that passport office from issuing a passport to anyone who cannot prove their parents were in the US legally. … How onerous is it for applicants with legal resident parents (or, in fact, US citizen parents) to supply proof of that? I looked up one famous birth certificate, that of Barack Obama, and it did not mention either of his parents’ citizenship or immigration status (for all the reader of the document knows his mother might have renounced her US citizenship). ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2024, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthright-citizenship/1010575/3 "2024-11-21T21:42:17Z")
> [@Mops](#): > > How onerous is it for applicants with legal resident parents (or, in fact, US citizen parents) to supply proof of that? I looked up one famous birth certificate, that of Barack Obama, and it did not mention either of his parents’ citizenship or immigration status (for all the reader of the document knows his mother might have renounced her US citizenship). Good question. I used to look at a lot of birth certificates when processing I-9 documents at work for new hires. I don’t believe those certificates mentioned the citizen status of their parents. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Sponge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dark_sponge/32/121_2.png) [@Dark\_Sponge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dark_Sponge)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2024, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthright-citizenship/1010575/4 "2024-11-21T22:07:45Z")
I don’t believe he’ll get anywhere with that. Republicans kept their mouths shut on just about everything Trump said during the election but they don’t want chaos and the vast majority aren’t actually racists. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2024, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthright-citizenship/1010575/5 "2024-11-21T22:16:13Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Of course he would likely lose any court case, but I think he is prepared to ignore court decisions he doesn’t like since he is immune from prosecution. Eh, I have a slightly different take. He’ll make the demand, there will be immediate court challenges, and it will veeeeerrrrrryyyyy slowly wind it’s way through the court system, because it’ll be filed with friendly courts. In the meantime, he’ll milk it for everything, and assuming the SCOTUS balks (or rules very narrowly) he’ll blame it all on the Democrats cheating. So he’ll win the bigots, win again on each narrow ruling, and win again in whipping up the mob when it’s overturned as it should be. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2024, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthright-citizenship/1010575/6 "2024-11-21T22:21:20Z")
The only thing I’ve seen about that is something on his website from 2023 claiming that will be the subject of an executive order he plans to issue on Day 1. It says > On Day One, President Trump will sign an Executive Order to stop federal agencies from granting automatic U.S. citizenship to the children of illegal aliens. Except that federal agencies never granted citizenship to anyone - at most , they recognize that a person fits the criteria to be a citizen set out by the 14th amendment and court decisions. He doesn’t really care about birthright citizenship ( and neither will plenty of his supporters when they realize they can’t prove their parents were here legally). He might not even issue it at all. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2024, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthright-citizenship/1010575/7 "2024-11-21T22:22:26Z")
> [@Dark\_Sponge](#): > > Republicans kept their mouths shut on just about everything Trump said during the election but they don’t want chaos and the vast majority aren’t actually racists. Since when? Racism is a core value of the Republicans, one of their biggest driving forces. They’ve spent decades since they started with the “Southern Strategy” recruiting and pandering to racists. And many do want chaos, they want to tear everything down and rebuild it in their own image. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2024, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthright-citizenship/1010575/8 "2024-11-21T22:23:39Z")
That depends - if my mother was born here in 1940 , is she a citizen or do I have to prove her parents were in the US legally? Because his “position” is that there never was birthright citizenship, not that he’s going to end it and I guarantee that except for the most recent immigrants, everyone has an ancestor whose legality can’t be proven. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2024, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthright-citizenship/1010575/9 "2024-11-21T22:31:08Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > Eh, I have a slightly different take. He’ll make the demand, there will be immediate court challenges, and it will veeeeerrrrrryyyyy slowly wind it’s way through the court system, because it’ll be filed with friendly courts. I think you’ve got it backwards. Trump won’t be filing the lawsuit, people denied passports will. Which means they (or rather an advocacy group with money and the ability to choose a client in a favorable jurisdiction) will get to choose where to file. Hopefully, that will mean a quick injunction as it winds its way through to the Supreme Court (where it’s anyones guess what will happen). Only one thing is certain: if anyone is relying on Republicans in Congress to stop him, they’re fooling themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2024, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthright-citizenship/1010575/10 "2024-11-21T22:46:03Z")
> [@Dark\_Sponge](#): > > and the vast majority aren’t actually racists. Okay, you’ll have to show your work on this because it’s just not computing. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2024, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthright-citizenship/1010575/11 "2024-11-21T22:50:00Z")
I would say that the vast majority of Republicans in office are (or will speak and act identically to) whatever it takes to stay in office. If their constituents want a racist to represent them in Washington, that’s what they will get. Time was when I would have extended that to politicians in general, but I think Republicans have goose-stepped a few paces ahead in this particular race to the bottom. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2024, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthright-citizenship/1010575/12 "2024-11-21T23:03:35Z")
Notice that if you can’t get an SS number for your kids, you can’t take them as dependents. Note that if you have a passport then you have been recognized as a citizen (or at least a national) and are thus legal. You can’t change that. For myself, my parents were born in the US in 1906 and 1913 before there were any immigration restrictions, so I can actually prove it. Kaos Ensuze ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2024, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthright-citizenship/1010575/13 "2024-11-21T23:04:46Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > > On Day One, President Trump will sign an Executive Order to stop federal agencies from granting automatic U.S. citizenship to the children of illegal aliens. > > Except that federal agencies never granted citizenship to anyone - at most , they recognize that a person fits the criteria to be a citizen set out by the 14th amendment and court decisions. And only when at some point later in life for some business with the agency you have obtain proof of citizenship, and you present the birth certificate that says you were born in the US as evidence. _ **NO** _ US government agency “grants citizenship” by birthright. (Of course, a _real_ conservative, which Trump and the MAGAs aren’t, would have remembered that they’ve spent _whole lifetimes_ arguing that in America constitutional rights are inborn to the citizen, not something the government grants.) So instead we’ll get the workaround of not issuing passports or SSA numbers or government program benefits to people who can’t prove the legality of their parents’ status. And probably he will get some sort of leverage from the Congress via holding back funding or acceptance of ID documents from states unless the individual states begin requiring a parental-migratory-status box in their vital statistics certificates, though that would bean settling for “starting from X date forward”. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Sponge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dark_sponge/32/121_2.png) [@Dark\_Sponge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dark_Sponge)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2024, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthright-citizenship/1010575/14 "2024-11-21T23:25:44Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@Dark\_Sponge](#): > > > > Republicans kept their mouths shut on just about everything Trump said during the election but they don’t want chaos and the vast majority aren’t actually racists. > > Since when? Racism is a core value of the Republicans, one of their biggest driving forces… Nope, you may believe that because they are “the enemy,” just like Republicans believe Liberals want to kill babies. But neither one is true. It’s just vilification on both sides. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2024, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthright-citizenship/1010575/15 "2024-11-22T00:28:54Z")
I guess we can sugar-coat this Republicans aren’t racists, they just support racist policies and racist politicians and don’t mind if racist actions take place. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2024, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthright-citizenship/1010575/16 "2024-11-22T01:20:11Z")
> [@Dark\_Sponge](#): > > Nope, you may believe that because they are “the enemy,” just like Republicans believe Liberals want to kill babies. But neither one is true. It’s just vilification on both sides. Ah, the “bothsides” argument, standard right wing rhetoric. And no, they aren’t the same and the Republicans _are_ dominated by racists. They’ve spent literally decades of effort to make that true. It would be a failure on their part if they weren’t. And the Republicans _are_ vile. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2024, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthright-citizenship/1010575/17 "2024-11-22T03:33:09Z")
I feel like the biggest thing on our side is that institutions/entities with power are loath to give it up. So the Senate and SCOTUS are likely to go along as long as it’s convenient to them, but I don’t believe they’re going to just roll over for everything, especially stuff that’s likely to sideline or marginalize themselves. Along with that, I think that a lot of Trump’s campaign promises sound good in the hinterlands, but are bad for business, and he’ll get a LOT of pressure from all the stakeholders in businesses that would be affected by tariffs and mass deportations. That’s not to say that it’ll all be good, but rather that it’s not like we’ve elected a dictator already. It’s going to take him a while and there’ll be a LOT of resistance even within his own party apparatus, never mind the other side. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2024, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthright-citizenship/1010575/18 "2024-11-22T03:37:32Z")
> [@bump](#): > > …it’s not like we’ve elected a dictator already. Such wonderful optimism you have. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2024, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthright-citizenship/1010575/19 "2024-11-22T10:57:43Z")
I’m confused, why would anyone believe he has ANY intention of EVER doing the things he promised. Do you forget his famous, ‘cover everybody, no copayments, best ever health plan?’ He literally promised, ‘in two weeks…’, for four straight years. And NEVER stopped bragging on how good it would be, and NEVER made ANY attempt to ever produce ANY plan. They bought it last time, why wouldn’t they buy in again? Talk about low info voters! I had more sympathy for Trump voters last round. This time? None, I’m afraid. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2024, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthright-citizenship/1010575/20 "2024-11-22T11:54:18Z")
My proof of citizenship for my US passport was (1) my USA birth certificate and (2) that I am the person represented by that birth certificate. I am, in fact, the child of someone who was an illegal alien at the time of my birth and minority. I could perhaps prove that by providing mom’s naturalizstion paperwork, if I could get it, but it would be a challenge, and I don’t know that it would be clear. The birth certificate does state that she was born in a foreign country, but of course no immigration status. How would county clerks even evaluate that? In the highly unlikely event that Trump does get birthright citizenship revoked, I will try to get my citizenship revoked in solidarity with the brown people in the same situation (though as (1) a white person with (2) a second, definitely American parent, I know they don’t mean me). My guess: there is no way to do so. It’s already next to impossible to renounce US citizenship, and I am guessing that that process is the only one available for current passport holders (and I’m not doing that process, as it’s objectionable for other reasons). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/birthright-citizenship/1010575.md?page=2)