# Bishop Convicted of Holocaust Denial
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-convicted-of-holocaust-denial/536355
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [April 16, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-convicted-of-holocaust-denial/536355 "2010-04-16T15:58:55Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-convicted-of-holocaust-denial/536355/1 "2010-04-16T15:58:55Z")
[http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100416/ap\_on\_re\_eu/eu\_germany\_holocaust\_denial](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100416/ap_on_re_eu/eu_germany_holocaust_denial)
Note that he did not make these statements in Germany, but that a YouTube video of these comments (like all YouTube videos) could be viewed in Germany.
So what do you legal eagles say? If a person sits in the United States and denies the holocaust, can he be extradited to Germany to face charges because his comments were posted on YouTube?
Isn’t Germany going too far here to stifle free speech?
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-convicted-of-holocaust-denial/536355/2 "2010-04-16T16:07:25Z")
The interview took place in Switzerland, so I guess it depends on what extradition agreements are in place.
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### Author:  [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-convicted-of-holocaust-denial/536355/3 "2010-04-16T16:23:02Z")
I don’t personally support criminal penalties for denying the Holocaust, but I do have to say that of all human rights abuses occurring in the world right now, this is among the ones that saddens and bothers me the least.
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-convicted-of-holocaust-denial/536355/4 "2010-04-16T16:38:21Z")
I don’t see where Germany has jurisdiction to prosecute this case. The statements were not made in Germany, and Williamson appears to be a UK citizen.
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### Author:  [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-convicted-of-holocaust-denial/536355/5 "2010-04-16T16:43:05Z")
Is there anything the RCC can point at lately as a PR benefit? This guy and the guy who said the molestation charges were like the Holocaust should fight it out.
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### Author:  [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-convicted-of-holocaust-denial/536355/6 "2010-04-16T17:12:21Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> I don’t see where Germany has jurisdiction to prosecute this case. The statements were not made in Germany, and Williamson appears to be a UK citizen.
> [@](#):
>
> The interview was conducted near Regensburg.
[Regensburg is in Germany.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regensburg)
Well, apperantly the Germans still take it very seriously, if some Tommy claims that the Holocaust did not happen.
Why a Tommy would say such an idiotic rubish is beyond me and to top it, he is a Bishop.
If someone just denies the holocaust it in a pub while drunk, nobody is dragging you to court, it’s a different story when it’s a public figure.
Going to far, maybe… the Germans certainly have their reasons for it. Maybe in another couple of decades it will look differently.
As long as people lived through the holocaust, people will take it ott serious. Personally, I laugh at this stage about someone as stupid as this clown.
If you denie the holocaust outside of Germany, you can not be trialed in Germany, unless you are representing Germany as a Political Figure.
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### Author:  [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2010, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-convicted-of-holocaust-denial/536355/7 "2010-04-16T17:15:58Z")
Geez, more Catholic scandal! All they can do is thank God no children we involved.
Gosh! Just read his Wiki-bio!
> **[Richard Williamson (bishop)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Williamson_(bishop))**
>
> Richard Nelson Williamson (born 8 March 1940) is a British independent Traditionalist Catholic bishop who opposes the changes in the church brought about by the Second Vatican Council.
> In 1988, Williamson was one of four Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX) priests illicitly consecrated as bishops by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, for which Pope John Paul II declared he had incurred ipso facto automatic excommunication. The validity of the excommunication has always been denied by the SSPX, who, cit...
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-convicted-of-holocaust-denial/536355/8 "2010-04-16T17:25:37Z")
> [@Doughbag](#):
>
> [Regensburg is in Germany.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regensburg)
Well, sloppy reading by me. I saw something about the interview being conducted for Swedish TV, and just assumed it was shot in Sweden. If it happened on German soil, that would give them jurisdiction.
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### Author:  [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-convicted-of-holocaust-denial/536355/9 "2010-04-16T18:04:58Z")
> [@jtgain](#):
>
> [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100416/ap\_on\_re\_eu/eu\_germany\_holocaust\_denial](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100416/ap_on_re_eu/eu_germany_holocaust_denial)
>
> Note that he did not make these statements in Germany, but that a YouTube video of these comments (like all YouTube videos) could be viewed in Germany.
>
> So what do you legal eagles say? If a person sits in the United States and denies the holocaust, can he be extradited to Germany to face charges because his comments were posted on YouTube?
I’m no legal eagle, but from what I understand, countries will only extradite a person if the crime they’re accused of is also a crime in that country. So no, a US citizen who goes to Germany, denies the Holocaust, then returns to the US could not be extradited.
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### Author:  [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2010, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-convicted-of-holocaust-denial/536355/10 "2010-04-17T14:08:48Z")
Wait, he was first an Anglican, then a Catholic, excommunicated, then Episcopalian, then un-excommunicated Catholic?
And he’s a Bishop?
And a Holocaust denier?
What the hell?
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2010, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-convicted-of-holocaust-denial/536355/11 "2010-04-17T14:32:20Z")
> [@elbows](#):
>
> Wait, he was first an Anglican, then a Catholic, excommunicated, then Episcopalian, then un-excommunicated Catholic?
>
> And he’s a Bishop?
> And a Holocaust denier?
>
> What the hell?
It’s like a weird sitcom concept. But I think you have an extra Episcopalian in there. He was an Anglican, then became a Catholic and got mixed up with SSPX. Lefebvre made him a bishop, which got him excommunicated, because the Pope had said that Lefebvre shouldn’t go around making people bishops. Then in 2009, the Vatican reversed the excomm on the people that Lefebvre made bishop, including this guy.
And he’s a Holocaust denier.
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### Author:  [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-convicted-of-holocaust-denial/536355/12 "2010-04-17T14:35:23Z")
> [@elbows](#):
>
> Wait, he was first an Anglican, then a Catholic, excommunicated, then Episcopalian, then un-excommunicated Catholic?
>
> And he’s a Bishop?
> And a Holocaust denier?
>
> What the hell?
How do you figure he was ever Episcopalian?
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### Author:  [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-convicted-of-holocaust-denial/536355/13 "2010-04-17T14:51:20Z")
> [@elbows](#):
>
> Wait, he was first an Anglican, then a Catholic, excommunicated, then Episcopalian, then un-excommunicated Catholic?
>
> And he’s a Bishop?
> And a Holocaust denier?
>
> What the hell?
It’s kinda like the hokey-pokey, only with more denial.
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### Author:  [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-convicted-of-holocaust-denial/536355/14 "2010-04-17T15:18:33Z")
> [@](#):
>
> After his episcopal consecration Williamson…
From is wiki bio, not that it matters terribly, it’s still pretty weird without it.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-convicted-of-holocaust-denial/536355/15 "2010-04-17T15:28:20Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#):
>
> How do you figure he was ever Episcopalian?
It might be the references on the wiki page to “episcopal succession.” I’ve sometimes had to explain that episcopal succession is not the same as Episcopalian.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-convicted-of-holocaust-denial/536355/16 "2010-04-17T16:08:01Z")
> [@Doughbag](#):
>
> [Regensburg is in Germany.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regensburg)
My bad. I read it as “Regensberg”, which is in Switzerland.
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2010, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-convicted-of-holocaust-denial/536355/17 "2010-04-17T17:47:14Z")
> [@elbows](#):
>
> From is wiki bio, not that it matters terribly, it’s still pretty weird without it.
By “episcopal consecration”, they mean, “consecrated as a bishop”, which is what led to his excommunication, because the guy who made him a bishop was a schismatic Catholic leader who had been told he couldn’t make people bishops without the consent of the pope. It doesn’t refer to the Episcopalian Church of the US or Canada.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2010, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-convicted-of-holocaust-denial/536355/18 "2010-04-18T01:03:56Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#):
>
> Geez, more Catholic scandal! All they can do is thank God no children we involved.
Well, you know the rule - never get caught with a live boy or a dead Jewish population.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2010, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-convicted-of-holocaust-denial/536355/19 "2010-04-18T04:38:47Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#):
>
> It doesn’t refer to the Episcopalian Church of the US or Canada.
There is no Episcopalian Church in Canada. The equivalent is the [Anglican Church of Canada.](http://www.anglican.ca/index.php)
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### Author:  [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2010, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-convicted-of-holocaust-denial/536355/20 "2010-04-18T07:34:59Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#):
>
> I’m no legal eagle, but from what I understand, countries will only extradite a person if the crime they’re accused of is also a crime in that country. So no, a US citizen who goes to Germany, denies the Holocaust, then returns to the US could not be extradited.
This legal principle has been done away with in the EU. A citizen of one EU country can be extradited to another EU country for a “crime” that is not illegal in the country where the person lives.
And Germany should of course be taken out and flogged for having such idiotic rules.
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