# Bishop negotiates child sex settlement, and then . . . **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 1, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-negotiates-child-sex-settlement-and-then/512257 "2009-10-01T18:20:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-negotiates-child-sex-settlement-and-then/512257/41 "2009-10-03T15:29:26Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I wonder whether anyone has ever looked into comparative rates of abuse by various such organizations. > > I can’t help but think that requiring Catholic priests to be officially celebate makes such stuff more likely - not because being celebate drives people to rape kids, but rather because it provides perfect cover for those already so inclined - no inconvenient spouse hanging around, and no qualms on the part of parents and others about a guy apparently uninterested in acquiring one (his own age). I think it’s rather that the mandatory celibacy requirement (along with the No Women rule) keeps away a lot of normal people who feel called to preach Gods work and do pastoral work, so that the Catholic Church suffers worst from a shortage of priests, leading them to accept people that should be weeded out. Additionally, there are many documented cases of the Church hierarchy covering for child molesters: Bishops again and again transfer accused Priests to another diocese, making investigations byt eh police difficult, and also transfer convicted priests into new dioceses and put them again into contact with children. (Likewise, the Church hierarchy unoffically pays for “housemaids” that sleep with priests, even for abortions, but will not budge if a priest wants to be released from his vows to marry a woman he loves honorably. And illegitmate children of priests are not officially recognized). ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-negotiates-child-sex-settlement-and-then/512257/42 "2009-10-03T16:41:09Z")
I’m curious - does the Catholic Church have its own version of Internal Affairs or Military Police? And if so, why the hell aren’t they doing their jobs? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-negotiates-child-sex-settlement-and-then/512257/43 "2009-10-03T16:54:00Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Rape isn’t about sex, but about power, or revenge. I’ve always heard that, but come to think about it, I’ve never seen any scientific studies cited. Are there any? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-negotiates-child-sex-settlement-and-then/512257/44 "2009-10-03T17:29:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What the Church has that most other faiths generally do not is an organization: when the local rabbi is a molestor, he can’t be quietly sent to another temple by the Archrabbi, because there is no Archrabbi. So when the desire to “protect the Church” is mutated into a desire to a desire to protect the molester, the RCC can dole out more damage than most other faiths. > > But that’s not a showing of how prevalent the incidence of molesters is; it’s a statement about how they can evade consequences for longer. Right. It may be it’s the organizational circle-the-wagons reaction _with the capacity to apply it on a large scale_ that has a “multiplier effect”. What a pastor or rabbi could do in maybe one or two congregations before becoming unemployable, a priest enabled by his bishops could do across a dozen parishes over a lifetime. A Protestant congregation where this happened, back in the old days when these things were kept hushed up by society in general, would “quietly” dismiss the pastor and tell him to get out of town, but they would not outplace him. He would then be on his own to find another pastoral job where they would not want to hear from his prior employer, or would have to try to start his own church and recruit followers. At worst, a perv pastor could dominate his flock cult leader-style and stay on _there until someone dared blow the whistle, and the damage would be limited to that specific population. A priest OTOH would be moved right along to new parishes and new potential victims, and in turn have the possibility of rising up the ranks to become an enabling bishop. \*\* Alessan_: I guess **Bricker** may know better about that – My impression AFAIK is that the disciplinary structures are relatively limited at the diocesan level (plus would be subordinate to the bishop anyway), and even at the Vatican level they became comfortable parts and defenders of the statu quo, more concerned with watching over organizational and doctrinal-discipline issues (e.g. Are you running a collective farm on Church land, or are you claiming the Pope’s not legit ’ cause the Mass is not in Latin anymore). IMO the Church fell back onto an archaic and self-serving notion of the meaning of the “sin of scandal”. By which I mean the main culpability for causing disrepute to the Church and making the flock lose faith should NOT be in the action of publishing (and maybe sensationalizing) wrongdoing in the Church, but in the action of the primary wrongdoing itself; and rooting out such corruption can’t be done effectively if priority one is avoiding “scandal”. Even as the problem became called to their attention, the Church’s response was that the priests be channeled to the Church’s own internal counseling programs to then return to duty – repeatedly. Sort of how lay celebs keep going in and out of “rehab” for their drug/drink issues. Many in the RCC hierarchy still held on to the old notion that the clergy should NOT be handed over to the civilian legal system. Again, IMO this interfered with the ability to deal directly with the problem. Now, AFAIK nothing prevents a confessor from telling a penintent confessing his sins: “Part of your penance, to have your sin forgiven, is that you make amends to those affected by letting them take you before civilian justice.” But then again I’m not Pope and these sorts of ideas would probably keep me from the job. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-negotiates-child-sex-settlement-and-then/512257/45 "2009-10-03T17:47:36Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I’m curious - does the Catholic Church have its own version of Internal Affairs or Military Police? And if so, why the hell aren’t they doing their jobs? Well for the Maritimes, they had Lahey clean it up, however . . . Unfortunately, although the Roman Catholic Church has addressed the issue internally, it has perferred to not be transparent, which raises a lot of questions a to whether or not they have been covering up or not dealing with the problem appropriately. That’s why the Lahey matter is so serious. > **[Pope Caught Orchestrating Church Pedophile Cover Up - BSAlert.com](https://bsalert.com/news/1418/Pope_Caught_Orchestrating_Church_Pedophile_Cover_Up.html)** > > Consumer information exposing scams and lies in corporate america, media, politics government > **[Crimen sollicitationis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimen_sollicitationis)** > > Crimen sollicitationis (Latin for On the Manner of Proceeding in Cases of the Crime of Solicitation) is the title of a 1962 document ("instruction") of the Holy Office codifying procedures to be followed in cases of priests or bishops of the Catholic Church accused of having used the sacrament of Penance to make sexual advances to penitents. It repeated, with additions, the contents of an identically named instruction issued in 1922 by the same office. > The 1962 document, approved by Pope John... > **[Apostolic Penitentiary](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostolic_Penitentiary)** > > Former dicasteries > The Apostolic Penitentiary (Latin: Paenitentiaria Apostolica), formerly called the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Penitentiary, is a dicastery led by the Major Penitentiary of the Roman Curia and is one of the three ordinary tribunals of the Apostolic See. The Apostolic Penitentiary is chiefly a tribunal of mercy, responsible for issues relating to the forgiveness of sins in the Catholic Church. > The Apostolic Penitentiary has jurisdiction only over matters in the internal... ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-negotiates-child-sex-settlement-and-then/512257/46 "2009-10-03T18:30:56Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Rape isn’t about sex, but about power, or revenge. That’s a phrase oft-repeated as if it were universal truth, but it’s not necessarily so. From the victim’s standpoint it certainly is very often about power (or the lack of it than anything else) but from the perpetrator’s standpoint, the power is generally just a tool to achieve their goal, which may be revenge, degradation, lust, a desire for intimacy, or dozens of other, and mixed, motivations. So rape is about what perpetrators want. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-negotiates-child-sex-settlement-and-then/512257/47 "2009-10-03T19:49:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So when the desire to “protect the Church” is mutated into a desire to a desire to protect the molester, the RCC can dole out more damage than most other faiths. > > But that’s not a showing of how prevalent the incidence of molesters is; it’s a statement about how they can evade consequences for longer. But one would logically lead to the other; over time, pedophiles would accumulate because they aren’t being weeded out. Even assuming that the protectiveness of the church towards them didn’t attract them, which I find unlikely. As for actual hard evidence; this seems to be the sort of thing people are reluctant to study carefully, no doubt because they are afraid of what the data would say. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-negotiates-child-sex-settlement-and-then/512257/48 "2009-10-03T21:33:07Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I can’t help but think that requiring Catholic priests to be officially celebate makes such stuff more likely - not because being celebate drives people to rape kids, but rather because it provides perfect cover for those already so inclined - no inconvenient spouse hanging around, and no qualms on the part of parents and others about a guy apparently uninterested in acquiring one (his own age). I think that’s a likely reason. The top-down hiring of priests also takes power away from the parishioners in that they can’t just quietly among themselves not reup someone’s contract, but have to go up the ladder to complain. People won’t often do that unless there’s something really bad and obvious going on, whereas if they had the power to get rid of the minister, the small things could add up and be talked about more. Just as it’s easier to let an employee go than to call the cops even if you’re suspecting something hinky. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-negotiates-child-sex-settlement-and-then/512257/49 "2009-10-03T23:46:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > According to [“Pedophiles and Priests: Anatomy of a Contemporary Crisis”](http://www.powells.com/biblio/61-9780195145977-2), by Philip Jenkins of Pennsylvania State University, the rates of pedophilia among priests is statistically the same as that found among married men. > > I’m not aware of any studies that show a higher rate among priests. Can anyone expand my knowledge in this area? I think it would also be worth looking at not just the amount of pedophiles in the priesthood, but also the incidence of acts. You could, hypothetically, have a higher rate of actual acts while the amount of actual pedophiles is statistically normal. That aside, I think i’d probably argue that pedophilia in the priesthood being statistically the same as married men is unexpectedly high. I would have said that we should be expecting the rate to be lower, rather than the same, and so a finding that they are comparitive doesn’t really strike me as a particularly good claim. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-negotiates-child-sex-settlement-and-then/512257/50 "2009-10-03T23:46:09Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > No, it’s a psychological profile of a scientist who looked at the data of convincted rapists. Rape isn’t about sex, but about power, or revenge. I’ve always found that to be silly. It’s obviously both. You can have power over people without raping them, clearly the sex is integral. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-negotiates-child-sex-settlement-and-then/512257/51 "2009-10-03T23:50:22Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I’ve always found that to be silly. It’s obviously both. You can have power over people without raping them, clearly the sex is integral. There aren’t that many ways of humiliating and degrading your target that are more efficient than rape, though. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-negotiates-child-sex-settlement-and-then/512257/52 "2009-10-04T14:15:07Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > I’ve always heard that, but come to think about it, I’ve never seen any scientific studies cited. Are there any? [This is the one](http://www.snopes.com/crime/prevent/rape.asp) I found interesting. > [@from that article](#): > > Around 1980, Nicholas Groth, director of Forensic Mental Health Associates, established a typology of rapists. Groth arrived at his conclusions by distilling his observations of more than 3,000 sex offenders over the course of 25 years of practice. (Most of his patients, Groth points out, were not sexually deprived at the time they committed rape, thereby exploding that most common of rape myths: that men rape because they’re unable to get sex any other way.) > > In a general sense, rapists fall into three motivational types: anger, power, and sadism. In anger assaults, the rapist is getting even for “some wrong he feels has been done to him, by life, by his victim at the time. He’s in a frame of rage and attacks someone sexually.” The anger rape is usually unpremeditated and impulsive, but the impulse drives the rapist into excessive force: the victim is punched, choked, and kicked into submission. Most such offenders derive little pleasure from the act, says Groth, but “they want to degrade their victims, and sex is something bad, dirty, the worst thing you could do to someone. That reflects a lot of our values in society.” … ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-negotiates-child-sex-settlement-and-then/512257/53 "2009-10-04T15:14:50Z")
“Most of his patients, Groth points out, were not sexually deprived at the time they committed rape,” whcih suggests that the results of his study would not necessarily apply to the priesthood. Nor does it address child porn viewers who at some point or other may also be opportunistic child buggerers. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-negotiates-child-sex-settlement-and-then/512257/54 "2009-10-04T23:42:03Z")
I occasionally read a website about the doings of the Catholic church and now I note that they are starting to yell “homos attracted to teenage boys” instead of “pedophiles attracted to children”. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-negotiates-child-sex-settlement-and-then/512257/55 "2009-10-05T00:15:32Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > [This is the one](http://www.snopes.com/crime/prevent/rape.asp) I found interesting. Well, that’s not actually a study. It’s a synopsis by non-scientists, who don’t even cite it as a source. Do you have any links to the study itself? FWIW, I was unable to find anything relating to “Forensic Mental Health Associates.” ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-negotiates-child-sex-settlement-and-then/512257/56 "2009-10-05T13:51:41Z")
I suspect that the rapes committed by actual pedophiles may differ from those committed by adults on adults. For one, pedophiles _cannot_ obtain their sexual preference _except_ through rape. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-negotiates-child-sex-settlement-and-then/512257/57 "2009-10-05T16:41:21Z")
The archbishop has now spoken on the matter. The CBC has reported that "He also stressed that Lahey is only accused and has not been found guilty. Harris asked people to pray for Lahey and his family, as well as the Antigonish diocese." [http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2009/10/04/ns-roman-catholics.html](http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2009/10/04/ns-roman-catholics.html) ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-negotiates-child-sex-settlement-and-then/512257/58 "2009-10-05T17:11:09Z")
All sex is about power. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-negotiates-child-sex-settlement-and-then/512257/59 "2009-10-05T17:24:04Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > All sex is about power. Apparently, I’ve been doing it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-negotiates-child-sex-settlement-and-then/512257/60 "2009-10-05T17:41:31Z")
I saw the movie made about this-I understand the movie was not shown in Canada. Anyway, Mt. Cashel seemed o be a little bit like a prison camp, with sexual abuse thrown in. I know several Cnadians who quit attending church, because of the revelations coming out of this case. In any event pedophiles come in all flavors-there was an ex-MA state police sergent caught (he was soliciting what he thought was a 15 year old boy, on line). There was also the case of one catholic priest James porter, now deceased) who admitted to abusing over 100 children in his career. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-negotiates-child-sex-settlement-and-then/512257.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bishop-negotiates-child-sex-settlement-and-then/512257.md?page=4)