# Bitches or Females: Which do you least like to be called **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 25, 2012, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitches-or-females-which-do-you-least-like-to-be-called/635765 "2012-09-25T11:57:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitches-or-females-which-do-you-least-like-to-be-called/635765/41 "2012-09-26T03:56:36Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > Now, being called a bitch on the other hand, just sort of makes me laugh. In general, when a man calls me a bitch, I feel like I’ve won. He’s feeling so insecure that he has to tear me down and use some ugly word to try to put me in my proper place, so he whips that one out. And that makes me think he has just handed his power over to me on a platter. I typically respond with “Oh, why thank you. Now that you’re clear on that, we’ll get along a lot better.” > > There is also heartless bitches international, who define bitch as “Being In Total Control of Herself.” When a man stands up for himself and refuses to take any crap, he’s applauded as a strong person, possibly even a leader. When a woman stands up for herself and refuses to take any crap, and maybe even goes so far as to call someone else out on their bullshit, she’s just a bitch. So call me a bitch, then, if that’s the only way you can feel like you’re swingin’ meat. Of course, there are quite a few men - I’d say a majority - who use the term “bitch” to mean “feminine scum”. The female equivalent of “bastard” or “asshole”. A woman being honestly insulted like that telling herself that such an insult is a compliment actually reinforces the insult by adding arrogance and self righteousness to the mix. Males have other emotions and concerns than insecurity and gender politics. Pretending that men are one dimensional machines who have no purpose but hating and fearing women is just as insulting and sexist as anything spouted by some woman hater. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitches-or-females-which-do-you-least-like-to-be-called/635765/42 "2012-09-26T04:44:00Z")
> [@Scathach](#): > > In certain contexts, I think it does. Like don’t get me wrong, it’s not an issue I exactly spend sleepless nights over, but if you’re referring to a woman as a female in a situation where you wouldn’t refer to a man as a male, it’s just a bit …odd? grating? I’m not sure how to characterise it really. > > Like, if you’re filling out a census form and the options are male and female, I don’t think anyone has a problem with that. But female as a generic term where ordinarily woman would be used always seems to argue a certain disconnect away from thinking of a woman as a person and rather than as a generic thing under the umbrella term female. Well, yeah, I refer to myself as a male and to other male-bodied people as males, more often than not. I don’t tend to subscribe to “man” as a construct that I give any creedence to. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitches-or-females-which-do-you-least-like-to-be-called/635765/43 "2012-09-26T05:19:46Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Of course, there are quite a few men - I’d say a majority - who use the term “bitch” to mean “feminine scum”. The female equivalent of “bastard” or “asshole”. A woman being honestly insulted like that telling herself that such an insult is a compliment actually reinforces the insult by adding arrogance and self righteousness to the mix. > > Males have other emotions and concerns than insecurity and gender politics. Pretending that men are one dimensional machines who have no purpose but hating and fearing women is just as insulting and sexist as anything spouted by some woman hater. Good post. Yeah, bitch can be used as both a directable insult and a general disrespectable term for those of the female gender. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitches-or-females-which-do-you-least-like-to-be-called/635765/44 "2012-09-26T07:25:18Z")
I fail to understand what is supposedly wrong with the word _woman_. It’s the actual correct word out of them all, after all. You can’t go wrong by saying a woman is a woman. Same goes for the word _man_ for the other gender. I completely fail to understand people’s aversion to the perfectly good and correct words _man_ and _woman_.\* \*Except for **AHunter3** and his radical gender-revolutionary ideology. Although I disagree with it, at least he’s thought it through and explains his reasons cogently. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitches-or-females-which-do-you-least-like-to-be-called/635765/45 "2012-09-26T17:15:01Z")
> [@palacheck](#): > > Christ, female is out of bounds now to? > > I can’t use lady, can’t use girl, can’t use woman(well I can, depending on the _inflection_), can’t use gal, and now I can’t use female. I suppose I’ll try not-male or not-man until all of the over-sensitive not-males that outlawed the other words catch on. Which will no doubt be the next post in this thread. I’m screwed. > > Meanwhile, it’s still perfectly acceptable to call us men, dudes, guys, males, assholes, and “hey dumb-ass”. > > I need to start dating men. I’ll have to get over the not being gay hurdle, but other than that there should be nothing to it. Got no problem with female. Girl is not acceptable because, at 57, I hardly fit the description. However if you call me girl, I’ll work the word 'boy into my reply and go on with my life. Gal doesn’t bother me if guy doesn’t bother you. Woman is just dandy too. I’ll also answer to ‘Goddess-like personification of all things good’ but that is a bit cumbersome for casual conversation. Bitch not so much. I don’t know anyone, male or female, that thinks it acceptable to call men "assholes’ or “dumb-ass”. When I read stuff like that, I always wonder who the poster hangs out with and why. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitches-or-females-which-do-you-least-like-to-be-called/635765/46 "2012-09-26T17:49:17Z")
Whenever I do something that someone doesn’t like, their first go-to is to call me a bitch. It’s moot for this discussion whether I earned it or not (sometimes yes, sometimes no), but it is definitely the go-to insult for women. “Females” is just weird. It’s like the person saying it learned how to relate to women from all their friends in their Dungeons and Dragons group. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitches-or-females-which-do-you-least-like-to-be-called/635765/47 "2012-09-26T18:00:26Z")
I’m not really understanding the hate for the word “female”. It’s perfectly appropriate, depending on its use, although I guess I could refer to the non-male side of my family as “the [enatic](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/enatic) line”. Do you all also dislike the word “feminine”? Or do you prefer “woman-like”? Serious questions, not snark. ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitches-or-females-which-do-you-least-like-to-be-called/635765/48 "2012-09-26T18:03:19Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I’m not really understanding the hate for the word “female”. It’s perfectly appropriate, depending on its use, although I guess I could refer to the non-male side of my family as “the [enatic](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/enatic) line”. Do you all also dislike the word “feminine”? Or do you prefer “woman-like”? Serious questions, not snark. Female as adjective = fine Female as noun = weird. I was talking to a female tennis player today = fine I was talking to a female today = weird ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitches-or-females-which-do-you-least-like-to-be-called/635765/49 "2012-09-26T18:24:19Z")
Also, please – if you’re reading this thinking, “WTF, there’s nothing wrong with the word ‘female,’” please trust the testimony of the women in this thread who are saying that they don’t like it, and respect that. Again, if you belong to a profession where “male” and “female” are used as nouns equally, such as law enforcement, it’s cool – it’s part of the jargon of your profession. But if you think the binary option is between “females” and “men,” think about what’s going on there with your terminology and why you might use it. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitches-or-females-which-do-you-least-like-to-be-called/635765/50 "2012-09-26T19:17:22Z")
> [@gallows\_fodder](#): > > Also, please – if you’re reading this thinking, “WTF, there’s nothing wrong with the word ‘female,’” please trust the testimony of the women in this thread who are saying that they don’t like it, and respect that. > > Again, if you belong to a profession where “male” and “female” are used as nouns equally, such as law enforcement, it’s cool – it’s part of the jargon of your profession. But if you think the binary option is between “females” and “men,” think about what’s going on there with your terminology and why you might use it. Should males be considered an insult? This thread has me flabbergasted. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitches-or-females-which-do-you-least-like-to-be-called/635765/51 "2012-09-26T19:26:46Z")
> [@Scathach](#): > > Female as adjective = fine > Female as noun = weird. > > I was talking to a female tennis player today = fine > I was talking to a female today = weird Nailed it. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitches-or-females-which-do-you-least-like-to-be-called/635765/52 "2012-09-26T19:33:24Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I’m not really understanding the hate for the word “female”. It’s perfectly appropriate, depending on its use\ That’s it exactly - it’s perfectly appropriate depending on its use, but inappropriate (or just weird) depending on its use. > [@Scathach](#): > > Female as adjective = fine > Female as noun = weird. > > I was talking to a female tennis player today = fine > I was talking to a female today = weird This is a great example of that. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitches-or-females-which-do-you-least-like-to-be-called/635765/53 "2012-09-26T19:42:21Z")
> [@Scathach](#): > > Female as adjective = fine > Female as noun = weird. > > I was talking to a female tennis player today = fine > I was talking to a female today = weird I can see that. Weird usage. Not insulting. Bitch is an insult. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitches-or-females-which-do-you-least-like-to-be-called/635765/54 "2012-09-26T19:44:12Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I can see that. Weird usage. Not insulting. Bitch is an insult. While you may not use it in that manner as an insult, lots of people do. Thank them for ruining a perfectly reasonable word. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitches-or-females-which-do-you-least-like-to-be-called/635765/55 "2012-09-26T19:44:54Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I can see that. Weird usage. Not insulting. Bitch is an insult. That’s true enough. I do appreciate it if I hear a guy calling woman “females” - it really lets me know who I’m dealing with. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitches-or-females-which-do-you-least-like-to-be-called/635765/56 "2012-09-26T19:52:33Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > While you may not use it in that manner as an insult, lots of people do. Thank them for ruining a perfectly reasonable word. I can make your name soud insulting depending on how I say it. That doesn’t make your name bad. > [@](#): > > That’s true enough. I do appreciate it if I hear a guy calling woman “females” - it really lets me know who I’m dealing with. Is it just females or do you have the same problem with males? ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitches-or-females-which-do-you-least-like-to-be-called/635765/57 "2012-09-26T20:28:40Z")
You have to consider the source and the context. It’s not a cultural “thing” to think of men as alien creatures whose brains work in bizarre and unknowable ways, the way it is to characterize women as such. If a woman is going around calling women “women” and men “males,” well, she probably has issues, but it’s not a widespread phenomenon the way calling women “females” and ascribing to Pick-up Artistry gimmicks that instruct men to see women as either dogs you can condition or robots you can program are. Do you get what I’m saying? The word “female” in and of itself is not the problem – it’s the mindset behind its use that’s the problem. Like many people in this thread and elsewhere have said, it’s a red flag for Issues With Women. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitches-or-females-which-do-you-least-like-to-be-called/635765/58 "2012-09-26T20:29:32Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > \ > Is it just females or do you have the same problem with males? I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone use “males” in the same way we’re discussing the use of the word “females” here. I think I would find it weird too, though. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitches-or-females-which-do-you-least-like-to-be-called/635765/59 "2012-09-26T20:34:36Z")
The B-word and the C-word are NEVER acceptable. According to the late, great William Safire in his NY Times column On Language, the word “female” is an adjective which should only be used when gender is both relavent and in doubt. The female actress Whoopi Goldberg? No. The female executive Joanne Smith? No. The female executive Chris Jones? Yes, if her gender is somehow relevant. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitches-or-females-which-do-you-least-like-to-be-called/635765/60 "2012-09-26T20:41:54Z")
Maybe somebody has already mentioned this and I overlooked it, but I thought the main feminist objection to both _female_ and _woman_ was that they present the masculine form of the word (i.e., _male_ and _man_) as the base/default, with an affix forming the feminine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitches-or-females-which-do-you-least-like-to-be-called/635765.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitches-or-females-which-do-you-least-like-to-be-called/635765.md?page=4)