# Bitcoin Mining - Crippling Power Generation **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 27, 2022, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitcoin-mining-crippling-power-generation/958511 "2022-01-27T19:03:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2022, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitcoin-mining-crippling-power-generation/958511/21 "2022-01-29T23:27:28Z")
It does in that you can pay your taxes with it. You can also discharge all debts with it. The same can’t be said for bitcoin. The government doesn’t have to take it for payment of taxes, and if you owe me money, I don’t have to accept it to pay it off. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2022, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitcoin-mining-crippling-power-generation/958511/22 "2022-01-29T23:37:03Z")
That just means it has more uses. Gold has intrinsic value but the government will not accept that either to pay your taxes. If we have a zombie apocalypse no one will want paper money in exchange for a good because paper money has no intrinsic value. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2022, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitcoin-mining-crippling-power-generation/958511/23 "2022-01-30T00:18:43Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > To be fair, the dollar bill in your pocket (or whatever currency you use) has no intrinsic value either. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > That just means it has more uses. Gold has intrinsic value but the government will not accept that either to pay your taxes. > > If we have a zombie apocalypse no one will want paper money in exchange for a good because paper money has no intrinsic value. True, but it’s not about intrinsic value, it’s about what those things represent. Dollars aren’t just backed by the full faith and credit of the US government, they’re backed by the economic output of the US economy. Bitcoin has no such wealth backing it. > [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Wall Street creates things like securities and bonds out of nothing because people want it and assign extrinsic value to it, but there is next to no cost to do so. Those things aren’t created out of nothing, they have the underlying wealth of the companies backing them. Boeing stock is partially backed by all the planes they own, Pfizer by the medicines the my make, Exxon by the oil they produce, and so on. All those things have intrinsic value. Bitcoin has none of that. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2022, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitcoin-mining-crippling-power-generation/958511/24 "2022-01-30T00:21:34Z")
True, let’s leave equity out of it. Debt instruments are only worth anything if they can be paid back. Which sometimes doesn’t happen. But creating them doesn’t redirect global resources. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2022, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitcoin-mining-crippling-power-generation/958511/25 "2022-01-30T01:10:46Z")
Sure. As I mentioned above in the quoted post, Bitcoin uses a lot of power _relative to its net value to society_, which I think is arguably negative. But 0.5% of power use is not going to bring the grid to its knees. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2022, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitcoin-mining-crippling-power-generation/958511/26 "2022-01-30T01:38:12Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Debt instruments are only worth anything if they can be paid back. Which sometimes doesn’t happen. But creating them doesn’t redirect global resources. But how does the issuer of the debt get the money to pay it back? By using global resources, to produce a product, to earn money, to pay off debts. It’s not quite the A → B pattern for bitcoin, but it’s still there. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2022, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitcoin-mining-crippling-power-generation/958511/27 "2022-01-30T04:10:41Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > But why would they? > > They run those rigs in order to mine the bitcoin, not to provide transactions. If there are no longer bitcoin to be mined, then why would they do so? The way the protocol is written, mining does not provide just new bitcoins but also a transaction fee. If you want your transaction included in the blockchain, you are already paying a transaction fee to the miners, who also get new bitcoins as well. If the fees you are willing to pay are too low, it is unlikely a miner will include your transaction in the blockchain over other transactions. So, they don’t run those rigs just to mine bitcoin but also to get those transaction fees. The way this is supposed to work in the future is that once there are no new coins to be mined, the transaction fees alone will be sufficient to keep mining going. That’s why miners would, at least in theory, keep mining after the last coin is issued. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2022, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitcoin-mining-crippling-power-generation/958511/28 "2022-01-30T05:16:51Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If we have a zombie apocalypse no one will want paper money in exchange for a good because paper money has no intrinsic value. well, and you can be damn sure that ‘bitcoin’ and all other digitial currencies will also be off the table. ---
**Author:** ![jjakucyk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3d9bf3/32.png) [@jjakucyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjakucyk)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2022, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitcoin-mining-crippling-power-generation/958511/29 "2022-01-30T05:17:50Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Current estimates are that Bitcoin power usage is about 0.5% of global usage… > [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > …the question is whether Bitcoin is a substantial use of electricity in Kosovo… I’m sure there’s places in the world where mining is essentially nonexistent, or at least not on the public grid. Therefore other areas are carrying more of the load. Would countries with cheap power then see 5% of their electricity going to mining? 10%? 20%? Even if it’s just a blip on the world stage, that’s a lot for an already fragile local power grid. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2022, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitcoin-mining-crippling-power-generation/958511/30 "2022-01-30T20:48:38Z")
If Bitcoin transactions were to be as common as just Visa card transactions… > **[Bitcoin energy consumption 2022 | Statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/881541/bitcoin-energy-consumption-transaction-comparison-visa/)** > > The average energy consumption for one single Bitcoin transaction in 2022 could equal several hundreds of thousands of VISA card transactions. And that is just one Bitcoin transaction compared to 100,000 Visa transactions. So the real world power requirements of a Bitcoin system comparable to the number of other current financial transactions would be ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2022, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitcoin-mining-crippling-power-generation/958511/31 "2022-01-31T16:48:53Z")
Looks like Kazakhstan has a big stake in the cryptomining biz. > **[Inside Kazakhstan's giant crypto-mine](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/technology-60148754)** > > Kazakhstan is now the world's second biggest crypto-currency mining country, thanks partly to a vast mine in the desert. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2022, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitcoin-mining-crippling-power-generation/958511/32 "2022-02-02T00:05:33Z")
Oh, definitely, it could be a problem for some locations and grids. _Most_ of the solution to that problem has to be letting the market rate for electricity rise, but that can be easier said than done in some cases. I am kind of surprised that no one has figured out how to economically rent “Bitcoin heaters” to people who use electric heat. [Found one!](https://heatbit.com/) ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2022, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitcoin-mining-crippling-power-generation/958511/33 "2022-02-02T15:42:46Z")
The impact of mining on the power grid(s) is difficult to extrapolate over an entire nation. The relevant server farms often tend to be localized to particular municipalities or regions. Meaning: their power consumption can have a leviathan outsized impact on particular locales. Case in point: > **[Texas Governor Begs Crypto Miners to Shut Down If the Power Grid Is About to...](https://futurism.com/the-byte/texas-governor-bitcoin-miners)** > > Texas governor Greg Abbott begged crypto miners to halt operations in the event the Texas grid shuts down completely like in February 2021. Which is particularly charming after last year’s Texas winter, the horrendous (not affiliated with the rest of 'Murica’s grid system) power failures, resulting catastrophes, and Ted Cruz **needing** to flee to the Yucatan for … for … for … Og’s sake ! [Think of the children] Texas begged, borrowed, and stole to get these people to do biz in their states. Now comes the bill. I’m guessing they won’t pay. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2022, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitcoin-mining-crippling-power-generation/958511/34 "2022-02-02T16:28:54Z")
> [@simster](#): > > well, and you can be damn sure that ‘bitcoin’ and all other digitial currencies will also be off the table. After hurricane Sally the only medium of trade was good old US cash. No power for credit cards and nobody had those paper tickets you used to sign. Some individuals took jewelry or gold in trade but at a huge discount. Bitcoin? Not even a consideration. In Greenbacks We Trust [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitcoin-mining-crippling-power-generation/958511.md?page=1)