# Bitty birds bugging big birds **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 22, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitty-birds-bugging-big-birds/176825 "2003-05-22T15:23:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitty-birds-bugging-big-birds/176825/1 "2003-05-22T15:23:57Z")
I’ve always wondered what’s going on when I’ve seen one or more little tiny birdies chasing after a big crow or hawk, and seemingly trying to give them a goose. Anybody got the straight dope? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitty-birds-bugging-big-birds/176825/2 "2003-05-22T15:32:19Z")
‘Mobbing’ is the term; often crows or magpies will raid nests for eggs or chicks, essentially the little birds gang up on the large predator and try to drive it away. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitty-birds-bugging-big-birds/176825/3 "2003-05-22T15:40:27Z")
More info here: [http://www.rspb.org.uk/birds/mobbing/](http://www.rspb.org.uk/birds/mobbing/) ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitty-birds-bugging-big-birds/176825/4 "2003-05-22T15:56:32Z")
Cool! Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitty-birds-bugging-big-birds/176825/5 "2003-05-22T16:00:32Z")
Here in Texas, it’s not unusual to be dive-bombed by a mockingbird or blue-jay if you get too close to their nest. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitty-birds-bugging-big-birds/176825/6 "2003-05-22T16:20:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Turek \* > Here in Texas, it’s not unusual to be dive-bombed by a mockingbird or blue-jay if you get too close to their nest. I have had some close encounters with terns when out rowing. They can be quite irate. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitty-birds-bugging-big-birds/176825/7 "2003-05-22T16:32:13Z")
For birders, this can be a good way to get to see a hawk or owl. When you see a bunch of small birds in the forest all going nuts, jumoing around and giving alarm calls, if you look carefully you may find a hawk or owl tucked away inside the bushes trying to look inconspicuous. But sometimes it’s just a snake. I’ve seen hummingbirds chase hawks, and a jay chase away a Harpy Eagle. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitty-birds-bugging-big-birds/176825/8 "2003-05-22T18:26:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Colibri \* > But sometimes it’s just a snake. You say that like it’s a bad thing - If it’s a snake you can catch it! And…umm…stare at it…before putting it back. Okay, doesn’t sound so great in print. Tamerlane’ Vertebrate Physiology professor to Tamerlane, many years’ ago, after noticing an almost irrational excitement over the appearance of a mere Garter Snake while walking a short distance through a park to a museum for a field trip: _You’re a “snake-chaser”, aren’t you?_ T: _Err…yes._ T’s Prof ( shaking head in disgust ): _Ugh. So’s my husband. It’s like a sickness._ 😃 - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitty-birds-bugging-big-birds/176825/9 "2003-05-22T19:00:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tamerlane \* > **You say that like it’s a bad thing - If it’s a snake you can catch it!.** You are more than welcome to any snakes I find. Especially in the tropics. Based on some of the herp guys I’ve been working with recently, I must concur with your prof’s assessment. There’s somethin’ not just _right_ about that boy. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![RiverRunner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/977dab/32.png) [@RiverRunner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RiverRunner)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitty-birds-bugging-big-birds/176825/10 "2003-05-22T19:37:30Z")
Re: dive-bombing by jays I used to feed a mommy cat who had her kittens stashed in a stump at the end of my back yard. She would come up to the house to get food and be harassed the entire way up and back by blue jays who must have had a nest in the tall oak trees next door. They would swoop down and pinch her on the butt, and sometimes she would turn complete somersaults. (It just occurred to me: maybe they were just bird chauvinists or something.) I miss that kitty; she was a sweetheart. This is the second bird thread on the first page of GQ. Now I have been reminded of my own bird questions, so there will soon be three bird threads. And, before I finish this longer-than-necessary post, this [birdhouse-cam](http://www.birds.cornell.edu/birdhouse/nestboxcam/index.html) is very cool. RR ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitty-birds-bugging-big-birds/176825/11 "2003-05-22T22:02:43Z")
There is a small bird which lives in a tree near the corner that I work at, and almost every day this big crow comes along and the little bird goes nuts and starts attacking it in mid-air. Its pretty funny to watch, like a little aerial dogfight going on. That little bird would manage to peck the bejeezus out of the larger, slower crow before it moved on. ---
**Author:** ![ltfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@ltfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ltfire)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitty-birds-bugging-big-birds/176825/12 "2003-05-23T00:22:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Incubus \* > \*\*There is a small bird which lives in a tree near the corner that I work at, and almost every day this big crow comes along and the little bird goes nuts and starts attacking it in mid-air. Its pretty funny to watch, like a little aerial dogfight going on. That little bird would manage to peck the bejeezus out of the larger, slower crow before it moved on. \*\* …and what makes it funny is that it’s like a two year old throwing punches at his dad. That seems to be the atitude of the larger bird…‘don’t bother me sonny, go play somewhere else’ ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitty-birds-bugging-big-birds/176825/13 "2003-05-23T02:07:24Z")
Once, up at Lake of the Woods on the US/Canadian border, I saw a bunch of swallows pestering a crow. One swallow, though, wasn’t paying attention…because he was grabbed in mid-air by a hawk. I shit you not. Wild Kingdom right off the end of the dock. ---
**Author:** ![peri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/67e7ee/32.png) [@peri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peri)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitty-birds-bugging-big-birds/176825/14 "2003-05-23T04:01:46Z")
Wild Kingdom is right. Tuesday morning the sparrows on the parkway were hyperexcited Then WHAM! A kestrel slammed into one and hauled away breakfast. Three feet away from me. Absolutely amazing. ---
**Author:** ![drhess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/94ad74/32.png) [@drhess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drhess)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitty-birds-bugging-big-birds/176825/15 "2003-05-23T04:07:52Z")
The link above has an interest note: birds of different species may gang up in a mob. Interesting… ---
**Author:** ![bbeaty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c0e974/32.png) [@bbeaty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbeaty)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bitty-birds-bugging-big-birds/176825/16 "2003-05-24T02:10:38Z")
How “mobbing” works: Konrad Lorenz in his book [King Solomon’s Ring](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0452011752/) describes some cool instinct pheonomena which he discovered when running his own colony of Jackdaws. A flock is like an ant colony: its a group-intelligence. He found that a birds will attack any animal (or human) which carries a small black object. Also, if the black object is dangling downwards, the attack is easier to trigger. The birds didn’t mind if they saw a bird on his shoulder. But if he tried to carry a bird in his hand, it triggered an attack. He once was “mobbed” by his pet birds while carrying a pair of black swim trunks. Also, once one bird starts making the “mobbing” call, it attracts other birds from all over, and all those birds remember the target, even though they didn’t see the dangling black object. Also, once a particular creature has triggered a “mobbing” more than once, then that creature will always get mobbed in the future even if it doesn’t carry a small black object. See where this is all going? Jackdaws aren’t instinctually programmed to recognize all the various predators. Instead, each bird carries a little piece of software which lets the flock as a whole acquire a “folk memory” for predators. Just one jackdaw in the distant past has to see an animal carrying a dead bird once or twice, and then the mobbing response for that type of predator “catches fire.” It spreads across the whole flock. It gets handed down from older birds to younger as the new birds participate in mobbings started by the older ones. This would be extremely useful over the millenia. Occasionally an entire flock would get wiped out except for a few very young inexperienced birds. The flock might grow again, but it’s “memory” was wiped out when the older birds died. The mobbing dynamic lets the newly born “flock-computational array” quickly learn to recognize all the usual predators. It would be… “interesting” …to walk past all the city crows in Seattle while carrying a small black object. Carry it in your mouth and shake it around. (better wear a helmet and goggles, just in case.)