# Black Africans and Ancient Egypt? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 20, 2017, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-africans-and-ancient-egypt/787078 "2017-05-20T13:57:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-africans-and-ancient-egypt/787078/61 "2017-05-31T18:16:15Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Again, I’m Irish. I went to Catholic schools. Did our American History classes concentrate on Irish-American life? NO! And if we’d told Sister Mary Ignatius “We shouldn’t be reading about WASPS, we should be reading about OUR people,” she’d have smacked us with a ruler and told us, “You learn what we teach you!” > > George Washington wasn’t Irish. Neither was Abe Lincoln, or Thomas Edison, or Susan B. Anthony any of the truly important figures in American History. Somehow, I managed to learn the subject anyway. So did Jewish kids, Italian kids, Polish kids, Japanese kids, et al. How many of the old Irish race tropes are still floating around? Irish Pride/people are readily accepted in many ways that AfAm are stigmatized. Do you not see the value of the Black Pride movement when we have posters who in other threads advocate their genetic inferiority/criminality? Or their non-existence/contribution to the history of mankind? Are you blind to this? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2017, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-africans-and-ancient-egypt/787078/62 "2017-05-31T18:39:30Z")
There’s been an announcement of a new TV series about Cleopatra. No actors have been announced, but I will be very surprised if the lead actress is not portrayed by a person of color. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2017, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-africans-and-ancient-egypt/787078/63 "2017-05-31T21:00:02Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Oddly this is from today’s [Slashdot.org](http://Slashdot.org) > > [DNA From Ancient Egyptian Mummies Reveals Their Ancestry - Slashdot](https://science.slashdot.org/story/17/05/31/0530240/dna-from-ancient-egyptian-mummies-reveals-their-ancestry) Oddly? That’s the same mummy-DNA study I just bumped the thread with. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-africans-and-ancient-egypt/787078/64 "2017-06-01T01:17:10Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > No, but you can walk a hell of a long way in 3000 years. There were wars, slave raids, trade and other contact with the southern populations going back to the earliest days of the lower Nile civilizations. But it’s like when recently someone in these forums was surprised that there wasn’t a noticeable black population in Spain until recently, since Africa is “right there”. Africa is, subsaharian Africa is not. We’re also short on blue-eyed blondes, and it’s easier to get here from places where blue-eyed blondes are common than from the Gulf of Guinea. Wars between the north and south of the Sahara? If you tell me there have been substantial ones (comparable with the ones involving the northern shores of Africa and any notion you care to name between Persia and Portugal) I believe you, but can you give me a few references to learn more about them? Slave raids? Yes, local - some slaves and some traders made their way across the Sahara (mainly by the coasts), but the volumes were tiny compared with the wars, raids and trade between the southern shores of the Mediterranean and the rest of it or of the Levant. ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-africans-and-ancient-egypt/787078/65 "2017-06-01T01:41:13Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > There’s been an announcement of a new TV series about Cleopatra. No actors have been announced, but I will be very surprised if the lead actress is not portrayed by a person of color. I am a person of color, i dont know any person who is devoid of color except casper the ghost What color is greece? ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-africans-and-ancient-egypt/787078/66 "2017-06-01T02:41:09Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > What I don’t understand is why would people expect “much” (sic) sub-Saharian ancestry. Do they think the Sahara used to have paved highways? The Sahara used to be less of a barrier to gene flow than it later became- there was a period about 11,000 to 5,000 years ago when portions of it were more like grasslands than deserts. Rainfall was estimated at 10 times what it is today. > **[Recent News | University of Arizona News](https://news.arizona.edu/news/green-saharas-ancient-rainfall-regime-revealed-scientists)** > > Find the latest news stories from the University of Arizona, covering UArizona research, projects and people. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-africans-and-ancient-egypt/787078/67 "2017-06-01T03:07:45Z")
> [@Weisshund](#): > > I am a person of color, i dont know any person who is devoid of color except casper the ghost > What color is greece? I’m not gong to get into what is appropriate and not appropriate terminology, especially when you and everybody else who read my post new exactly what I meant. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-africans-and-ancient-egypt/787078/68 "2017-06-01T12:36:47Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Oddly? That’s the same mummy-DNA study I just bumped the thread with. Oops! Didn’t see that stealthy ninja coming! Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-africans-and-ancient-egypt/787078/69 "2017-06-01T12:37:56Z")
> [@Weisshund](#): > > … > What color is greece? IIRC, the color of red ink? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-africans-and-ancient-egypt/787078/70 "2017-06-01T14:03:00Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > But it’s like when recently someone in these forums was surprised that there wasn’t a noticeable black population in Spain until recently, since Africa is “right there”. I was answering the specific question about the two populations being able to make contact; I didn’t mean to sound like I was supporting the afro-Egyptian claims. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-africans-and-ancient-egypt/787078/71 "2017-06-01T15:00:05Z")
It’s beyond any doubt that there was regular trade contact between Dynastic Egypt and Nubia. [Not just along the river, eithe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharga_Oasis#Darb_El_Arba.60.C4.ABn_caravan_route)r. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-africans-and-ancient-egypt/787078/72 "2017-06-01T15:38:05Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Oops! Didn’t see that stealthy ninja coming! > Sorry. \*Nobody \*expects the stealth ninja mummies! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-africans-and-ancient-egypt/787078/73 "2017-06-01T16:38:21Z")
I once read a book about the Irish kings being descended from Tutankhamun. It wasn’t entirely convincing on the core issue, but it had some interesting information on ancient connections between Britain and the middle east. ---
**Author:** ![Marci\_Al](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47c2d/32.png) [@Marci\_Al](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marci_Al)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-africans-and-ancient-egypt/787078/74 "2017-06-07T08:00:13Z")
They are now finding possible pre-hominid remains in Greece, but never mind. Question to anthropologists: Did black Africans ever settle in coastal north Africa, or were they limited to the south of the Niger river? ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-africans-and-ancient-egypt/787078/75 "2017-06-07T09:41:44Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > I once read a book about the Irish kings being descended from Tutankhamun. > > It wasn’t entirely convincing on the core issue, but it had some interesting information on ancient connections between Britain and the middle east. Ancient connections between Britain and the Mediterranean is often believed to have included Phoenician trading in tin, but hard evidence is lacking. There was an entire movement - the [British Israelites](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Israelism) - which argued that the British were the chosen people, and which required that they somehow have a connection to God country. the easiest way to do this was to self-identify as one of the lost tribes of Israel, but not Jewish. You can probably allow yourself the luxury of being completely unconvinced by it - its all just garbage from first principals onwards. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-africans-and-ancient-egypt/787078/76 "2017-06-07T11:10:50Z")
> [@Marci\_Al](#): > > Question to anthropologists: Did black Africans ever settle in coastal north Africa, or were they limited to the south of the Niger river? there is recorded 'black african’population in the Maghreb on the north edges of the Sahara from the classical times and the native Berber tradition is they are the “original people” and they are differentiated from the people who are considered to have come from the medieval slave trade (there is a different name for them in the Chilha language), and in earliest records spoke a language seeming to be related to the Songhai, a Saharan language. (see here in [Algeria wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korandje_language)on one ouasis population, the Balbalia. It is also claimed the Saharan berber language Zenata, shows the influence of a Songhai type language) It is in the archaelogical record as has been already linked in this thread that the Saharan up to 8-10 thousand years ago was much wetter and inhabited by the cattle herders who by the skeleton records perhaps were related or like the Peul and the Songhai as a population. In the drying out of the Sahara, from the small populations of the ‘original people’ you can guess that some of the cattle herder nomadic population that you might call ‘black african’ but of the Peul type ended up on the north and not the south side of the Sahara. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-africans-and-ancient-egypt/787078/77 "2017-06-07T16:09:10Z")
> [@Marci\_Al](#): > > Question to anthropologists: Did black Africans ever settle in coastal north Africa [Definitely](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Dynasty_of_Egypt). Or does Egypt not count? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-africans-and-ancient-egypt/787078/78 "2017-06-07T16:51:02Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > [Definitely](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Dynasty_of_Egypt). Or does Egypt not count? Black Africans were also found in Greece in classical times. IIRC one of the theories of what the Plauge of Athens[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague\_of\_Athens](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_of_Athens) is Ebola. Plus Thucydides states that the opinion at the time suggested it came from Africa. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-africans-and-ancient-egypt/787078/79 "2017-06-07T16:56:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Question to anthropologists: Did black Africans ever settle in coastal north Africa, or were they limited to the south of the Niger river? The Sahara is hardly an impenetrable barrier, rather, people have been crossing it regularly for centuries: > **[Trans-Saharan trade](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Saharan_trade)** > > Trans-Saharan trade is trade between sub-Saharan Africa and North Africa that requires travel across the Sahara. Though this trade began in prehistoric times, the peak of trade extended from the 8th century until the early 17th century CE. The Sahara once had a different climate and environment. In Libya and Algeria, from at least 7000 BCE, pastoralism (the herding of sheep and goats), large settlements and pottery were present. Cattle were introduced to the Central Sahara (Ahaggar) between 4000 ... ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-africans-and-ancient-egypt/787078/80 "2017-06-07T18:00:09Z")
> [@zimaane](#): > > The Sahara is hardly an impenetrable barrier, rather, people have been crossing it regularly for centuries: We are, however, speaking of a period of several _millennia_. About six of them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-africans-and-ancient-egypt/787078.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-africans-and-ancient-egypt/787078.md?page=5)