# Black and Tan Beer Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 27, 2007, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-tan-beer-question/424238 "2007-10-27T17:24:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-tan-beer-question/424238/21 "2007-11-07T23:44:39Z")
[QUOTE=Joey P] Update: Last time I was at the bar, I asked for a “Black Cow” and got exactly what I hoped for. [/QUOTE] …a chocolate milkshake? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-tan-beer-question/424238/22 "2007-11-07T23:57:14Z")
[QUOTE=bouv] Do most bars in the US even have a nitrogen system for Guinness? When I see them pour it here, they just tilt back the tap, the Guinness goes in the glass, then they put the tap back to the ‘neutral’ position. IIRC, if there’s a nitrogen system, then isn’t the bartender supposed to tilt the tap in the other direction to give the pint a shot of nitrogen? [/QUOTE] I sure as heck thought so. I mean, the only Guinness I’ve tasted that did not have the mouthfeel of a nitro pour is the bottled Extra Draught. Otherwise from the widget to every bar I’ve ever been to, it’s always looked and felt like nitro to me. ---
**Author:** ![ryobserver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b2d939/32.png) [@ryobserver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryobserver)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-tan-beer-question/424238/23 "2007-11-08T02:25:17Z")
[QUOTE=justrob] What I really love though are Back Velvets which are a Guiness/Hard Cider combo. [/QUOTE] Actually that’s a Poor Man’s Black Velvet. A proper Black Velvet is Guinness and champagne. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-tan-beer-question/424238/24 "2007-11-08T02:29:38Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] The bottle version is definitely just a regular bottle-conditioned beer, with yeast and carbon dioxide and all that entails. You can tell whether it’s a nitrogen pour simply by drinking the beer. Is it silky and smooth with small bubbles like Guinness? Or is it a bit more bubbly in the mouth, like almost every other beer? [/QUOTE] _Entrails?_ Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![iftheresaway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecae2f/32.png) [@iftheresaway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iftheresaway)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-tan-beer-question/424238/25 "2007-11-08T02:33:24Z")
Wow - I just had my first Black & Tan a few days ago & was quite delighted by it. Now I have so many more new ideas! ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-tan-beer-question/424238/26 "2007-11-08T02:53:08Z")
I’ve heard that many Irish bartenders and their patrons really dislike the term Black and Tan, due to [other connotations](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_and_Tans) of the name. I’m not sure what to call it instead, but I’d hesitate before ordering it anywhere where I heard more Irish accents than American. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-tan-beer-question/424238/27 "2007-11-08T03:03:01Z")
[QUOTE=waterj2] I’ve heard that many Irish bartenders and their patrons really dislike the term Black and Tan, due to [other connotations](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_and_Tans) of the name. I’m not sure what to call it instead, but I’d hesitate before ordering it anywhere where I heard more Irish accents than American. [/QUOTE] I think as said above this is a “half & half” but I don’t know anyone who drinks it regularly. Here you could ask for a pint with half x and half y and you’d be fine. A “black and tan” might get you puzzlement or a knowing nod and your required beverage depending on where you asked for it. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-tan-beer-question/424238/28 "2007-11-08T13:34:45Z")
[QUOTE=waterj2] I’ve heard that many Irish bartenders and their patrons really dislike the term Black and Tan, due to [other connotations](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_and_Tans) of the name. I’m not sure what to call it instead, but I’d hesitate before ordering it anywhere where I heard more Irish accents than American. [/QUOTE] So then be sure to order one at a time as a singular noun. > **[Black and tan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_and_Tan)** > > A black and tan is a beer cocktail made by layering a pale beer (usually pale ale) and a dark beer (usually stout). In Ireland, the drink is called a half and half. The term likely originated in England, where consumers have blended different beers since at least the 17th century. The tradition of blending beers can be traced to London during the 1700s where beer blends or "three-threads" and "five-threads" were consumed. Each thread was a beer type that was blended into a drink. Three threads w... ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-tan-beer-question/424238/29 "2007-11-08T20:15:44Z")
Okay… About the nitrogen. It isn’t controlled in any sense by the tap. The kegs are pressurized with gas, which forces it out and through the lines to the tap. If it’s normal beer, they pressurize them with CO2 tanks, and if it’s Guinness or Kilkenny etc, they are pressurised with a nitrogen mix. When you see a bartender doing that thing where he pushes the tap forward instead of pulling it down, he’s using the slower pour method. There’s essentially two speeds, although if you pull the tap back gently, you can pour at that speed too. As far as the nitrogen widget is concerned…I am not impressed. I have always poured from a can the way I’ve poured from a tap, until one day someone told me you’re supposed to just dump it right in. That still sucked, IMO. As far as I can tell, the reason why you don’t pour it all in one go, is because it makes the head end up being TOO big. The taste is the same. The point at which you stop pouring on the first pull is the determining factor of head size. The closer to half-way, the less head. The bartender can adjust this ratio depending on how the guinness is coming out that particular day. ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2007, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-tan-beer-question/424238/30 "2007-11-08T20:31:56Z")
I should also add that above when I said “the closer to halfway” I mean the closer from the top of the glass, not the bottom. If you stop it below halfway, I’d imagine you’d end up with a pitiful head providing you slowpoured it from there to the top. ---
**Author:** ![Miscue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8491ac/32.png) [@Miscue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miscue)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-tan-beer-question/424238/31 "2007-11-09T00:24:58Z")
I agree with the poster above. Guinness is pushed by a CO2/Nitrogen ‘beer mix’. The only way to control how much nitrogen goes into that tank, and when, is to be the guy who fills it initially. The bartender and tap cannot do anything to affect that. ---
**Author:** ![ryobserver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b2d939/32.png) [@ryobserver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryobserver)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-tan-beer-question/424238/32 "2007-11-09T00:31:06Z")
[QUOTE=waterj2] I’ve heard that many Irish bartenders and their patrons really dislike the term Black and Tan, due to [other connotations](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_and_Tans) of the name. I’m not sure what to call it instead, but I’d hesitate before ordering it anywhere where I heard more Irish accents than American. [/QUOTE] I would _really_ hesitate before ordering an [Irish Car Bomb](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbomb_%28beer_mix%29) under such circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-tan-beer-question/424238/33 "2007-11-09T02:41:47Z")
[QUOTE=An Gadaí] Top tip, put a centimetre of dilute blackcurrant (preferably Miwadi brand) in a Guinness glass, pour in Guinness. Blackcurranty Guinness goodness. [/QUOTE] Or vanilla vodka. ---
**Author:** ![justrob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@justrob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justrob)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-tan-beer-question/424238/34 "2007-11-09T15:05:56Z")
[QUOTE=ryobserver] Actually that’s a Poor Man’s Black Velvet. A proper Black Velvet is Guinness and champagne. [/QUOTE] Interesting, I’ll have to try that the next time I’m at a brunch. Maybe have one of those instead of a Mimosa. After some thorough testing last night I can attest to the tastyness of a Black Cow. ---
**Author:** ![ArmenE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ArmenE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArmenE)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-tan-beer-question/424238/35 "2007-11-09T16:35:52Z")
[QUOTE=justrob] Interesting, I’ll have to try that the next time I’m at a brunch. Maybe have one of those instead of a Mimosa. After some thorough testing last night I can attest to the tastyness of a Black Cow. [/QUOTE] Just wanted to chime in that I’ve always heard Poor Man’s Black Velvet called ‘Guiness Snakebite’, ‘Black snakebite’, or ‘snakebite with guiness’, snakebite being the name for a mix of beer (lager, usually) and (hard) cider. ---
**Author:** ![RancidYakButterTeaParty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@RancidYakButterTeaParty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RancidYakButterTeaParty)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-tan-beer-question/424238/36 "2007-11-09T17:40:03Z")
[QUOTE=Joey P] Update: Last time I was at the bar, I asked for a “Black Cow” and got exactly what I hoped for. [/QUOTE] Joey, if you really want to treat yourself, then go buy a bottle of Rogue Chocolate Stout and a bottle of New Glarus Raspberry Tart. Mix about 2/3 stout with 1/3 tart–or to your liking. It’s like a chocolate covered raspberry with alcohol behind it. Also, Raspberry Tart or the New Glarus Belgian Red over vanilla ice cream is to die for. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-tan-beer-question/424238/37 "2007-11-09T18:05:20Z")
[QUOTE=ArmenE] Just wanted to chime in that I’ve always heard Poor Man’s Black Velvet called ‘Guiness Snakebite’, ‘Black snakebite’, or ‘snakebite with guiness’, snakebite being the name for a mix of beer (lager, usually) and (hard) cider. [/QUOTE] FTR I have a Woodchuck promo poster in front of me (I sell Woodchuck). Snakebite “Half Lager, Half Woodchuck” Smoothie “Half Stout, Half Woodchuck” > [@](#): > > Joey, if you really want to treat yourself, then go buy a bottle of Rogue Chocolate Stout and a bottle of New Glarus Raspberry Tart. Mix about 2/3 stout with 1/3 tart–or to your liking. It’s like a chocolate covered raspberry with alcohol behind it. Also, Raspberry Tart or the New Glarus Belgian Red over vanilla ice cream is to die for. I think I’ll take a pass on that. I’m not a huge fan of Raspberry and the last time I tried a chocolate stout, it kinda grossed me out. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-tan-beer-question/424238/38 "2007-11-09T18:36:41Z")
[irrelevant hijack/] Spotted Cow is the best camping beer ever made for the simple reason it’s cheap and in an environment where ice is like gold Spotted Cow happens to be great warm. [/irrelevant hijack] ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2007, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-tan-beer-question/424238/39 "2007-11-10T16:07:11Z")
Camp in winter. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-tan-beer-question/424238.md?page=1)