# Black-and-white films **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 21, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-white-films/713266 "2015-02-21T16:41:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-white-films/713266/61 "2015-02-26T22:32:53Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Exactly! And that applies to silent films as well. Silent isn’t better either (in my opinion, you can’t even make a case for it being stylish, like B&W can be). Both were limitations of the medium. The silent era filmmakers would have gladly made their films in color and sound if it were possible. Not according to Mary Pickford. She once said that filming in sound and color would be like putting lipstick on the Venus de Milo\*. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Watching a silent-era film is maybe like watching a highlight-reel of a sports game. You get the major points, but the subtleties are not there. Since there wasn’t a way to easily convey tone of voice, inflection, sarcasm, etc, in intertitles, they probably wrote scripts that didn’t rely on that. You’re kidding, right? How many silent films have you seen? I LOVE silent films, and think that most of them convey great range and subtlety. Or, like Norma Desmond said, back then they didn’t need voices, because they had _faces_. > [@](#): > > Méliès’ \*A Trip to the Moon \*is a ground-breaking film, and also a fun film, but note that it is not regarded as an accurate portrayal of lunar travel to rival _Apollo 13_. Since Méliès couldn’t do that, he wrote a whimsical story in such a way that he could tell it with the tools he had available. That’s a ridiculous comparison. _A Trip to the Moon_ was made long before any kind of extra-atmospheric travel, let alone to the moon. _Apollo 13_ was a documentary about an actual, real event. You’d be better off comparing _A Trip to the Moon_ to _Star Wars_. Also, remember that _A Trip to the Moon_ is REALLY old. It was made in 1902. It doesn’t represent silent films as a whole. Look, for example, at the finesse, the mise en scene, and the special effects of _Metropolis_. \*I am aware of the irony here, in that there is lots of evidence that Classical statues were painted, but this was unknown until very recently. No one knew it in Pickford’s time, and no one knew it during the Renaissance, when people made white marble statues in imitation of the Classical ones. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-white-films/713266/62 "2015-02-26T22:34:41Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > A film is much more than its story. And the feeling would certainly have been different. Would _Casablanca_ be “just the same, but, like real life” if it were in color and also 3D? It seems I am in the minority, but I think it would. It’s the same old story, a fight for love and glory. For the reverse, there are a lot of reasons the remake of _Psycho_ is inferior to the original, but being in color isn’t one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-white-films/713266/63 "2015-02-26T22:43:55Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Not according to Mary Pickford. She once said that filming in sound and color would be like putting lipstick on the Venus de Milo\*. And when sound movies became commercially possible, Howard Hughes reshot most of the originally silent _Hells Angels_ with sound. Plus he shot some in color. I don’t know what Pickford’s quote really adds to the discussion, because she’s wrong. Unless you are arguing that every sound film, and ever color film ever made in the history of cinema, not to mention (color and sound, being live action and all) theater, is crap. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-white-films/713266/64 "2015-02-27T14:59:15Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Here’s my list of my favorite B&W films, and as soon as I post it, I’ll probably think of another one. RivkahChaya, Thank you ever so much for posting your list of favorites. I was hoping someone would do that because when I started this thread, I had hoped that I could get some ideas for some new films that I hadn’t seen before. I’d like to add that one B&W film I couldn’t list (because I have been unable to find a working version as of yet) was Force of Evil (1948) starring John Garfield. When I was younger, I kept confusing John Garfield with Paul Muni. To a 10 year-old, they both look very similar and they both made some wonderful B&W films - especially in the “Film Noir” genre. Thanks again! ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-white-films/713266/65 "2015-02-27T15:26:27Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > It seems I am in the minority, but I think it would. > > It’s the same old story, a fight for love and glory. > > For the reverse, there are a lot of reasons the remake of _Psycho_ is inferior to the original, but being in color isn’t one of them. I can’t say just how much I agree. Two different directors can tell the same story but the results could be wildly different. A great director can transport me with their film. By that, I mean that when I watch that film, I forget where I am and what time it is. I get transported to the time and place where the film takes place and everything else just falls away. There are many other reasons why a great film is so much more than just the story it tells. A ten year-old child who has never before made a movie can make one that tells the same story that a great director would tell. But the difference would be extreme. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-white-films/713266/66 "2015-02-27T15:43:50Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > As for ‘silent’ films (remember they were not shown silent), I can think of very stylish examples. _The Cabinet of Dr. Caligary_ comes immediately to mind. I remember visiting a film museum in Brussels 30 years ago. They screened the silent film _Romance of the Underworld_ (1928), starring Mary Astor, and a piano player in the the theater played the musical score throughout. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Ignoring the whole colorization issue, would say _Casablanca_ been worse if had been originally shot in color? It most certainly would. It would be unrecognizable. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2015, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-white-films/713266/67 "2015-02-27T15:59:44Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > That’s a ridiculous comparison. _A Trip to the Moon_ was made long before any kind of extra-atmospheric travel, let alone to the moon. _Apollo 13_ was a documentary about an actual, real event. You’d be better off comparing _A Trip to the Moon_ to _Star Wars_. Also, remember that _A Trip to the Moon_ is REALLY old. It was made in 1902. It doesn’t represent silent films as a whole. Look, for example, at the finesse, the mise en scene, and the special effects of _Metropolis_. Actually, a much better comparison is to Fritz Lang’s \* Frau im Mond\* (“Woman in the Moon”, 1929). This film depicts the first flight to the moon. Rocket expert Hermann Oberth was the technical advisor, and it shows. The special effects are _extremely_ good. And I won’t even say “for the period”. It looks as if they got together the crew to build a moon rocket and simply filmed it. It features the use of a multi-stage rocket, and the first count-down in history, which has been credited with giving us the use of counting down to zero for a launch. (But not the idea for the count. jules Verne used a count to launch in _From the Earth to the Moon_, but his was a count _UP_ to ten, rather than a count-down to zero) > **[Woman in the Moon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woman_in_the_Moon)** > > Woman in the Moon (German Frau im Mond) is a German science fiction silent film that premiered 15 October 1929 at the UFA-Palast am Zoo cinema in Berlin to an audience of 2,000. It is often considered to be one of the first "serious" science fiction films. It was directed by Fritz Lang, and written by his wife Thea von Harbou, based on her 1928 novel The Rocket to the Moon. It was released in the US as By Rocket to the Moon and in the UK as Girl in the Moon. The basics of rocket travel Helius... [https://search.yahoo.com/search;\_ylt=AuqobCFe405EOzUCx7gQKyKbvZx4?p=Die+Frau+im+Mond&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-901&fp=1](https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AuqobCFe405EOzUCx7gQKyKbvZx4?p=Die+Frau+im+Mond&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-901&fp=1) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-white-films/713266/68 "2015-02-27T16:06:00Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I remember visiting a film museum in Brussels 30 years ago. They screened the silent film _Romance of the Underworld_ (1928), starring Mary Astor, and a piano player in the the theater played the musical score throughout. In the early-'80s I saw a screening of _The Phantom Of The Opera_ (1925) at a revival house in Sherman Oaks. (They ran a month of science fiction and horror shows every year.) It was accompanied live by [Gaylord Carter](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaylord_Carter). ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-white-films/713266/69 "2015-02-27T16:16:27Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > It most certainly would. It would be unrecognizable. What does that even mean? A film is just a film, a sound is just a sound… That’s like saying _Gone With the Wind_ would be unrecognizable in B&W. But it wasn’t - the first several times I saw it was on a B&W TV, and it was still the same movie when I finally saw it in color. Just prettier. I never thought the color cheapened the film, or gussied up the horrors of the time period. 2001 would be closer to being unrecognizable in B&W, mostly for losing the trippiness of the star gate sequence, but otherwise it’s the same movie. (Heck, just drop some acid and the colors probably come back!) _Barb Wire_ could be described as a color remake of _Casablanca_, but the color film isn’t what makes it bad!🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-white-films/713266/70 "2015-02-27T16:19:46Z")
"There are some people that if they don’t know, you can’t tell them.” – Louis Armstrong ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-white-films/713266/71 "2015-02-27T16:41:49Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Actually, a much better comparison is to Fritz Lang’s \* Frau im Mond\* (“Woman in the Moon”, 1929). This film depicts the first flight to the moon. Rocket expert Hermann Oberth was the technical advisor, and it shows. The special effects are _extremely_ good. And I won’t even say “for the period”. It looks as if they got together the crew to build a moon rocket and simply filmed it. > > It features the use of a multi-stage rocket, and the first count-down in history, which has been credited with giving us the use of counting down to zero for a launch. (But not the idea for the count. jules Verne used a count to launch in _From the Earth to the Moon_, but his was a count _UP_ to ten, rather than a count-down to zero) > > [Woman in the Moon - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woman_in_the_Moon) > > [Die Frau im Mond - Yahoo Search Results](https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AuqobCFe405EOzUCx7gQKyKbvZx4?p=Die+Frau+im+Mond&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-901&fp=1) That’s an excellent point, and _Woman in the Moon_ makes a better comparison to _Apollo 13_. My point in bringing up _Star Wars_ was the _A Trip to the Moon_ isn’t meant to predict anything about what actual space travel might be like in the future, just as _Star Wars_ may have been dressed up as Sci Fi, but it’s really a fantasy film. Also, add both _A Trip to the Moon_, and _Woman in the Moon_ to my list. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2015, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-white-films/713266/72 "2015-02-27T17:31:00Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > "There are some people that if they don’t know, you can’t tell them.” – Louis Armstrong If your seemingly-profound but really empty philosophy is an attempt to make me think I am a simpleton, unable to grasp complex ideas, it ain’t working. Am I supposed to marvel at your quote, go “oooh! so deep! What if we had spoons for hands?” In other words, put up or shut up. No more Deep Thought fake Zen quotes. WHY would _Casablanca_ be “unrecognizable” if it had been originally shot in color? I am eager to consider your position. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-and-white-films/713266.md?page=3)