# Black are better at music—Or fuck you Diogenes the Cynic **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 29, 2008, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311 "2008-04-29T03:00:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/221 "2008-04-30T03:09:32Z")
I’ve been putting up all my life with stupid asses like you. You’re not remarkable, you’re not even interesting. You’re just dumb. Go to hell, and stay there. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/222 "2008-04-30T03:17:47Z")
[QUOTE=Paladud] Can’t we all just get along and listen to [this](http://youtube.com/watch?v=oqSulR9Fymg)? [/QUOTE] Are you sure you didn’t meant [this?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwTZ2xpQwpA) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/223 "2008-04-30T03:19:17Z")
[QUOTE=pantom] I’ve been putting up all my life with stupid asses like you. You’re not remarkable, you’re not even interesting. You’re just dumb. Go to hell, and stay there. [/QUOTE] You sound like you’re about to burst into tears. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/224 "2008-04-30T03:37:03Z")
I have to say after reading these diatribes that I agree and I do not agree. For every exception there is a rule. I tried to make this very same argument amongst friends about black athletes versus white ones, and I got slammed as a racist for insinuating that black people were inherently better suited than white people for certain things, not the least of which is playing b-ball, rapping and in some instances, playing NFL football. As far as music goes, I will say this: white people tend towards technical aspects and black people tend towards emotive music. It’s no coincedence that the collected amalgam of music of each culture reflects their woes. If we can concede on an intellectual level that black people _perfected_ the blues as a result of their common station in life, then we agree. It isn’t as if Eric Clapton suddenly realized his chops. He listened to somebody, and most of them were black artists that were not widely popularized at the time due to segregationalist tactics. I have to disagree with DtC though. Being sad and feelings of repression are a common theme in music, and are expressed in different ways throughout history. Black people certainly don’t own a patent on feeling, when in fact it’s all a matter of interpretation by the listener and how much they identify with said music. ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/225 "2008-04-30T03:38:41Z")
[QUOTE=phungi] The Jackson Five vs. The Osmonds vs. The Partridge Family 'nuf said, and let’s not even get _started_ talking about the Brady family. [/QUOTE] Don’t forget the Cowsills ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/226 "2008-04-30T03:49:54Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] What are you talking about, asshole. I’m the one getting pitted by a bunch of patronizing, grandstanding liberals. I think you’ve succeeded in impressing everybody with how offended and sensitive you are. You may fuck off back to watching Oprah now. [/QUOTE] Stop it, you’re killing me. Now you’re slipping in Rush Limbaugh parodies? Come on, man; don’t blow all your best material in one thread! I am getting a little worried that there’s been no smiley yet. Ha ha! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/227 "2008-04-30T03:59:20Z")
[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil] I have to say after reading these diatribes that I agree and I do not agree. For every exception there is a rule. I tried to make this very same argument amongst friends about black athletes versus white ones, and I got slammed as a racist for insinuating that black people were inherently better suited than white people for certain things, not the least of which is playing b-ball, rapping and in some instances, playing NFL football. As far as music goes, I will say this: white people tend towards technical aspects and black people tend towards emotive music. It’s no coincedence that the collected amalgam of music of each culture reflects their woes. If we can concede on an intellectual level that black people _perfected_ the blues as a result of their common station in life, then we agree. It isn’t as if Eric Clapton suddenly realized his chops. He listened to somebody, and most of them were black artists that were not widely popularized at the time due to segregationalist tactics. I have to disagree with DtC though. Being sad and feelings of repression are a common theme in music, and are expressed in different ways throughout history. Black people certainly don’t own a patent on feeling, when in fact it’s all a matter of interpretation by the listener and how much they identify with said music. [/QUOTE] I never said their musical creativity was a result of extraordinary emotion or sad circumstance. The cultural influences alleged in the study from the other thread was about different cultural learning styles, and said that blacks employ a pedagogical style which develops right brain creativity. I thought that, if this study was true, it might explain why (IMO), their music was “better,” because it employs a less rational and more intutive part of the brain. One of the most distinctive aspects of blues, jazz and even funk is the way those styles distort tonal and rhythmic forms for emotional effect. In other words, I’m saying I think a (perhaps culturally influenced) right brain approach allows for a better and more direct _expression_ of emotion, not that there’s anything special about the emotion itself. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/228 "2008-04-30T05:00:12Z")
[QUOTE=mlees] Heh. Are you that TV announcer guy? “In a world gone mad…” [/QUOTE] Somewhere in the quiet of night on anonymous message board, a poster asks a question that won’t be answered. Or will it?.. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/229 "2008-04-30T05:13:11Z")
[QUOTE=DMC] Let me know how you came up with that B-. [/QUOTE] Generosity. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/230 "2008-04-30T13:39:35Z")
I’m trying to figure out how **Dio’s** comment is typical of a Patronizing White Liberal. Where I come from, the “whites are rational, logical thinkers while blacks are creative emotionals” meme is **not** associated with “let’s all be colorblind 'cuz race is a social construct, bro” burkenstock-wearing liberals. If I had to pick a political orientation that has such a view, it would be conservatives. I think some of yall are confused. **Dio** may be a patronizing liberal, I dunno. But his opinion is not straight out of the Patronizing Liberal handbook. If anything, it’s straight of the _Bell Curve_ or some shit like that, but it’s hardly worth losing sleep over or getting outraged. This wouldn’t be the first time someone in GD has suggested that blacks are better than whites at something, so I’m not sure what makes his view, in itself, so egregious that it’s worth pitting him over. Am I crazy or have plenty of previous threads seen people opining that blacks are superior athletes? And there’s been no shortage of people who have asserted that blacks are intellectually inferior to whites, either biologically or culturally or a combination of both. And I have no idea what proposition I supposedly proved, **pantom**. Do you care to elucidate? Your posts can be confusing to me sometimes. If **Dio** deserves to be pitted, it’s for going so overboard in his defense of someone (Wright) that he lost his ability to reason. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/231 "2008-04-30T13:52:59Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] And I have no idea what proposition I supposedly proved, **pantom**. Do you care to elucidate? [/QUOTE] It’s a white thing. You wouldn’t understand. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/232 "2008-04-30T14:01:23Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] This wouldn’t be the first time someone in GD has suggested that blacks are better than whites at something, so I’m not sure what makes his view, in itself, so egregious that it’s worth pitting him over. Am I crazy or have plenty of previous threads seen people opining that blacks are superior athletes? And there’s been no shortage of people who have asserted that blacks are intellectually inferior to whites, either biologically or culturally or a combination of both [/quote] That is correct, and every time somebody does something like that it turns into a fight, and for the same reasons. The difference here is that **Diogenes** will not a) concede and apologize, b) slink away, c) get himself banned. Those are the only possible outcomes. But no, he keeps coming, and by doing so he re-energizes the thread over a topic that has been done to death and could have died pages ago. > [@](#): > > If **Dio** deserves to be pitted, it’s for going so overboard in his defense of someone (Wright) that he lost his ability to reason. That’s his MO. He gets it in his head that he’s right and he cannot and will not be moved from that position, fighting all the while. I said before that this sort of thing is predictable coming from him, the only thing that’s not predictable is what the topic _du jour_ will be that sets him off. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/233 "2008-04-30T14:02:45Z")
> [@you with the face](#): > > And there’s been no shortage of people who have asserted that blacks are intellectually inferior to whites, either biologically or culturally or a combination of both. Really? You see “no shortage” of people saying that in GD? Huh. Different than I remember GD. As far as asserting that blacks make better athletes, the only thing that looks promising when I search GD is [Why do we see different race at different NFL positions?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=452854). Gee, look at who the OP was…our very own outraged and colour blind OP from this thread: **Two and a Half Inches of Fun**. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/234 "2008-04-30T15:30:57Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] I think some of yall are confused. **Dio** may be a patronizing liberal, I dunno. But his opinion is not straight out of the Patronizing Liberal handbook. If anything, it’s straight of the _Bell Curve_ or some shit like that, but it’s hardly worth losing sleep over or getting outraged. This wouldn’t be the first time someone in GD has suggested that blacks are better than whites at something, so I’m not sure what makes his view, in itself, so egregious that it’s worth pitting him over. Am I crazy or have plenty of previous threads seen people opining that blacks are superior athletes? And there’s been no shortage of people who have asserted that blacks are intellectually inferior to whites, either biologically or culturally or a combination of both. [/QUOTE] +1. Me, I’m a white liberal, but I’m not pitting **Dio**. I’m still trying to figure out the leap between saying something foolish and being labeled racist, hypocrite and fraud and whatever else they’ve slung at him. I swear someone tells them to fire at will and they just spray shit. The “them” changes depending on the pittee, of course. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/235 "2008-04-30T15:50:57Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] That is correct, and every time somebody does something like that it turns into a fight, and for the same reasons. [/quote] Everytime? Really? What threads are you looking at? I’m pretty confident I participate in more race-related threads than you do, and rarely do people get pitted just for expressing a racist viewpoint. They may get challenged, but that’s not the same thing as being piled-on. For example, in this thread [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=452854&page=2&pp=50&highlight=athletes+blacks+whites](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=452854&page=2&pp=50&highlight=athletes+blacks+whites), Asknott asserts something that is as every bit as racist as **Dio’s** remark. > [@AskNott](#): > > At the risk of going the way of Jimmy The Greek, I’ll give you my opinion. This is one of the rare instances where one racial group has an inherent advantage. A great running back must be a great sprinter. Great sprinters need big strong butts and thighs. They need light, small calves. By a happy coincidence, those traits are found more often in black people. Now was this poster piled-on and pitted? No. His assertion was challenged and he was asked for cites in the tradition of the SDMB, but he wasn’t called racist or browbeaten. I’m failing to see why **Dio** should be treated any differently, unless the idea is that because he’s supposedly some big flaming liberal, he can’t get away with the same kind of beliefs that others can. Is that what’s going on here? Help me understand. > [@](#): > > The difference here is that **Diogenes** will not a) concede and apologize, b) slink away, c) get himself banned. What does he have to apologize for? Being stupid? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/236 "2008-04-30T15:55:16Z")
[QUOTE=CarnalK] As far as asserting that blacks make better athletes, the only thing that looks promising when I search GD is [Why do we see different race at different NFL positions?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=452854). Gee, look at who the OP was…our very own outraged and colour blind OP from this thread: **Two and a Half Inches of Fun**. [/QUOTE] I noticed that, too. Hypocrisy on aisle 2. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/237 "2008-04-30T17:05:11Z")
I don’t find what **Diogenes** said to be offensive, but I do think it’s an unsupportable claim, because music can’t be objectively measured. If it’s **Diogenes’** opinion that Blacks are better at music, then that’s what he should have said, vs. expressing it as if it were a known fact. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/238 "2008-04-30T17:19:20Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] Everytime? Really? What threads are you looking at? I’m pretty confident I participate in more race-related threads than you do, and rarely do people get pitted just for expressing a racist viewpoint. They may get challenged, but that’s not the same thing as being piled-on. For example, in this thread [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=452854&page=2&pp=50&highlight=athletes+blacks+whites](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=452854&page=2&pp=50&highlight=athletes+blacks+whites), Asknott asserts something that is as every bit as racist as **Dio’s** remark. Now was this poster piled-on and pitted? No. His assertion was challenged and he was asked for cites in the tradition of the SDMB, but he wasn’t called racist or browbeaten. I’m failing to see why **Dio** should be treated any differently, unless the idea is that because he’s supposedly some big flaming liberal, he can’t get away with the same kind of beliefs that others can. Is that what’s going on here? Help me understand. What does he have to apologize for? Being stupid? [/QUOTE] See my post here. And let’s go out for coffee; you seem sane. [post#132](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=465939&page=3) I have forgotten how to link directly to a single post. Apologies. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/239 "2008-04-30T17:37:53Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] …I have forgotten how to link directly to a single post. Apologies. [/QUOTE] **Eleanor** , just right-click on the post number (right next to the ‘report post’ triangle) and chose “copy link location” from the drop-down menu. Once that’s on your clipboard you can either post it directly like this: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9749651&postcount=238](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9749651&postcount=238) or make it tidy by naming it and then adding the URL to your wording: [Post 238](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9749651&postcount=238) [url= whatever is on your clipboard] name of link [/url] – skip the space in last bracket. Hope that helps. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/240 "2008-04-30T17:47:24Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] If it’s **Diogenes’** opinion that Blacks are better at music, then that’s what he should have said, vs. expressing it as if it were a known fact. [/QUOTE] It is a known fact. He’s an expert, and his opinion is a cite. Don’t believe it? Just ask him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311.md?page=13)