# Black are better at music—Or fuck you Diogenes the Cynic **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 29, 2008, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311 "2008-04-29T03:00:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/301 "2008-05-02T17:21:22Z")
First post new page! Here’s where the conversation left off: [post=9756860]Yeah[/post], I think I need some clarification. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2008, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/302 "2008-05-02T18:00:25Z")
[QUOTE=hawthorne] How? Your tack-on is cowardly. [sub]And FWIW, you didn’t get my joke. In that, at least, you weren’t alone.[/sub] [/QUOTE] Just on a hunch, I did a search on your “small painted wooden duck” line, and it seems that was a line in a BlackAdder episode ( I saw the episode, just forgot that phrase). If that’s where you got it from, I should point out that you did not, in fact, make a joke. What you did was make a partial reference to someone else’s joke - a joke that had no connection to the conversation you dropped it in. It’s a common mistake on the internet, usually happens with Monty Python though. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2008, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/303 "2008-05-03T13:46:58Z")
OK, I’ll explain my fairly lame joke. It does indeed allude to [Blackadder](http://www.suslik.org/Humour/FilmOrTV/BlackAdder/ba4-2.html). The point of it was to remark in a slightly resigned way that whilst there has been a great deal of fuss about the cunning plan for the boards and how it’s going, it is more sensible just to get on and assume that this place will muddle through as usual. It’s a jocular allusion because it suggests I resubscribed _because_ of the proffered “wooden duck” - which I obviously did not. So there _was_ a joke. It _was_ connected to the conversation. And others did not repeat it, because they - like you - didn’t get it. As for the cowardice, that’s pretty clear. It’s no hassle to start a new thread. You didn’t start one because you wanted to have a pop at a moderator on the sixth page of a Pit thread where hardly anyone would read it, when you could have responded by email if it wasn’t worth its own thread. You put it here to make it public without exposing yourself to the ridicule such a whinge would surely have attracted had you made it a separate thread. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2008, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/304 "2008-05-03T17:31:29Z")
It’s not cowardice. It’s apathy and resignation. I’m not starting a thread up just so a bunch of retards can make hilarious “whine” puns and jokes. And your joke really doesn’t make any sense. That’s why no one got it and I _still_ don’t get it even after knowing exactly what you are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2008, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/305 "2008-05-03T18:03:59Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Oh, blow me. It’s like saying that men are taller than women. It’s not true that all men are taller than all women, but , in general, men tend to be taller than women. As to my thesis that black people are better at music than white people. I have two words: Jimi Hendrix. Checkmate. [/QUOTE] You’re wrong. I think that “Black Music” (Jazz, Blues, Soul, Gospel) in America is perceived as being better because of its popularity. I think it became more popular for a while than traditional Anglo/Germanic/Celtic music because it was _different_. Different roots (Africa, not Europe), and coming from a different experience (loss, servitude, freedom, persecution, faith, etc.). An entire generation, maybe even two, fell in love with it and its derivatives (of which Rock is, arguably, but one). So because it has become more popular than “traditional” Anglo music, it is being perceived as being better. Horseapples. I likes me some rock, blues, and jazz (even Dixieland; I don’t care what some HoloDeck tart says, if you can’t dance to Dixieland, you ain’t tryin’!). I also likes me some Zydeco. _And_ some of that old timey mountain music. And Spanish guitar. Even some of that Polka-style Tejano. I think the best music is like a good gumbo: lots of ingredients, well seasoned, mixed thoroughly, and allowed to simmer a while so all the flavors can blend. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2008, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/306 "2008-05-03T22:24:25Z")
Techno music was created mostly by black musicians who lived in the detroit suburbs and were heavily influenced by both white and black groups across a huge variety of genres. These same black musicians spent years unable to find an audience in their own city and were kept going by their popularity amongst white europeans. The majority of techno musicians today are white, though many blacks remain prominent. In other words I think this whole argument is stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2008, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/307 "2008-05-03T22:35:10Z")
Techno sucks. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2008, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/308 "2008-05-03T23:20:51Z")
. No, disco sucks. Techno blows. . ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2008, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/309 "2008-05-03T23:24:25Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Oh, blow me. It’s like saying that men are taller than women. It’s not true that all men are taller than all women, but , in general, men tend to be taller than women. As to my thesis that black people are better at music than white people. I have two words: Jimi Hendrix. Checkmate. [/QUOTE] I hear they run real well too. Too bad they’re more likely to be stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2008, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/310 "2008-05-03T23:27:22Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] I hear they run real well too. Too bad they’re more likely to be stupid. [/QUOTE] How else can they survive, dumb as they are? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2008, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/311 "2008-05-03T23:28:29Z")
You guys are fucking _racist_, man. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2008, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/312 "2008-05-03T23:37:54Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] You guys are fucking _racist_, man. [/QUOTE] And your still hard headed. Don’t ever change. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2008, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/313 "2008-05-03T23:40:58Z")
[QUOTE=CarnalK] What disproportionate anger? I didn’t even start a Pit thread, just hijacked this, as you noted, perfect example. I said quite plainly and simply that “whine” is pretty much always meant as an insult, “playfully mocking” notwithstanding. SkipMagic and Colibri just seem to like tut-tutting me too much to admit it they were wrong. [/QUOTE] Who appointed you a moderator in ATMB? **Skip’s** notes to you were because of your criticism of other posters. [QUOTE=CarnalK] Sweet lord. Why is it when anyone makes a stupid joke around here a dozen people have to pile into the thread to make the exact same joke and fill up the whole thread with it. You guys are why Tuba has to close down every thread that goes through ATMB. Is a little self control on the “submit reply” button too much to ask? [/QUOTE] If you thought the comments of other posters were inappropriate, the proper course was to report the posts, not play junior moderator, as you were doing. [QUOTE=SkipMagic] Mod Note: Your personal criticisms don’t belong in this forum, CarnalK. If your goal is to simply whine about how other people post, either keep it confined to the Pit or, better yet, learn to apply a little self-control and don’t bother saying anything at all. [/QUOTE] To which you replied, continuing to both play junior moderator and, rather ironically, dispute the instructions of an actual moderator in an inappropriate forum: [QUOTE=CarnalK] It wasn’t really “personal”, I’m just saying this is ATMB not MPSIMS and I don’t think everything should be turned into a joke thread. Besides, what difference does it make? Any criticism like I just made usually brings another string of jokes, so EVERYONE is happy. And misusing the word “whine” to make your “note” into a personal insult doesn’t exactly keep you on that high horse neither. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=SkipMagic] Mod Note: It’s not a misuse when it’s applied correctly, as it was in this case. Your opinion on whether the other posts are stupid, and your admonition for others to excercise some self-control were inappropriate for this forum. This is the second time lately you’ve been instructed to keep your crap out of ATMB and confined to the Pit. I wouldn’t recommend a third time. Further comment on this matter can be made in the Pit. [/QUOTE] **Despite all this** , you chose to make the following comment in a different thread, after \*\*Skip’s \*\*very specific instructions to knock it off: [QUOTE=CarnalK] [QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] I’m not intending to be insulting, or disparaging, just matter-of-fact about it. [/QUOTE] Then don’t use the word “whine” because it is both disparaging and insulting. Seriously, am I the only one who knows this? [/QUOTE] Given your deliberate ignoring of a moderator’s instructions, you are extremely lucky I did not give you a formal warning for it. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2008, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/314 "2008-05-03T23:52:42Z")
No, they are mocking you for not being able to admit that you were wrong about some of the things in this thread. You have it coming to you for the mish mash of your argument. You really don’t like being wrong. Your pleasure is in pointing out to others that they are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2008, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/315 "2008-05-03T23:57:43Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] No, they are mocking you for not being able to admit that you were wrong about some of the things in this thread. [/QUOTE] I’m pretty sure he gets it. > [@](#): > > You really don’t like being wrong. Your pleasure is in pointing out to others that they are wrong. This I agree with. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2008, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/316 "2008-05-04T00:50:27Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] No, they are mocking you for not being able to admit that you were wrong about some of the things in this thread. You have it coming to you for the mish mash of your argument. You really don’t like being wrong. Your pleasure is in pointing out to others that they are wrong. [/QUOTE] I wasn’t wrong. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2008, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/317 "2008-05-04T02:25:31Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Techno sucks. [/QUOTE] given that you live in minnesota, it seems pretty unlikely that you’ve ever actually heard real techno music, but I’ll pass your well wishes along to Juan Atkins and Derrick May nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2008, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/318 "2008-05-04T04:52:53Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I wasn’t wrong. [/QUOTE] Hey **Dio** , since you’re back in the thread, mind answering the following question? > [@](#): > > [QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] > > I said that I had initially believed the study was claiming that different learning methods had a neurological effect on the brain. If that is what you thought when you “misunderstood what the study was claiming”, what is it that you think the study is claiming now? [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2008, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/319 "2008-05-04T05:29:06Z")
[QUOTE=Polerius] Hey **Dio** , since you’re back in the thread, mind answering the following question? [/QUOTE] I’m not sure. It’s claiming some kind of effect on right brain/left brain dominance but I don’t know exactly what. It doesn’t matter because my point remains that I never claimed a _genetic_ influence. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2008, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/320 "2008-05-04T06:03:06Z")
Since it’s not genetic, do you believe this aptitude for music applies to all black people or only black people in some places? Black people the world over don’t share the same cultural experiences. What do black people in Nigeria and black people in, say, New Orleans have in common that make them both predisposed toward music excellence? It just seems like you’re taking your own preference for certain types of mainly black influenced music genres and using that as proof that black people make all the good music. Anything that doesn’t jive with that notion you simply dismiss as being bad music, or trace the influences back only as far as is convenient to your theory and then stop. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311.md?page=17)