# Black are better at music—Or fuck you Diogenes the Cynic **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 29, 2008, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311 "2008-04-29T03:00:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/21 "2008-04-29T04:26:20Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Louis Armstrong John Coltrane Charlie Parker Duke Ellington Ray Charles Sly Stone Stevie Wonder Bob Marley What do white people have? Fucking Mylie fucking Cyrus. [/QUOTE] Rachmoninof Beethoven Cole Porter You see how stupid this is, right? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/22 "2008-04-29T04:26:46Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Louis Armstrong John Coltrane Charlie Parker Duke Ellington Ray Charles Sly Stone Stevie Wonder Bob Marley What do white people have? Fucking Mylie fucking Cyrus. [/QUOTE] I can’t believe you feel into this trap. It won’t be pretty. I’ll start: The Beatles. Next… ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/23 "2008-04-29T04:27:26Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] …What do white people have? Fucking Mylie fucking Cyrus. [/QUOTE] Don’t forget Mindy McReady. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/24 "2008-04-29T04:27:41Z")
Tom Waits. Next? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/25 "2008-04-29T04:28:54Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] White people are better writers. I have two words: William Shakespeare. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] White people have had longer to practice (and don’t forget, they intentionally tried to keep black people illiterate for a couple of centuries there). I think you also need to remember that there is a very rich African and Black-American tradition of _oral_ storytelling, though. ---
**Author:** ![RachelW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac8455/32.png) [@RachelW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RachelW)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/26 "2008-04-29T04:29:33Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] So, I guess White people are better at science. Einstein. In fact, I think we can start making a whole list of things that White people are better at. [/QUOTE] Well Einstein was Jewish. A subculture of White people maybe - and a sneaky one at that. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/27 "2008-04-29T04:30:51Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] I can’t believe you feel into this trap. It won’t be pretty. I’ll start: The Beatles. Next… [/QUOTE] And the Beatles stole from Chuck Berry and Little Richard. Sure there arfe some god white musicians and composers, but (in the 20th century anyway), they were greatly influenced by the creativity and innovation of black musicians. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/28 "2008-04-29T04:31:25Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] White people have had longer to practice (and don’t forget, they intentionally tried to keep black people illiterate for a couple of centuries there). I think you also need to remember that there is a very rich African and Black-American tradition of _oral_ storytelling, though. [/QUOTE] You do realize I do not think white people are better writers? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/29 "2008-04-29T04:31:58Z")
> [@](#): > > White people have had longer to practice (and don’t forget, they intentionally tried to keep black people illiterate for a couple of centuries there) Uh, wut? You know, of course, that Africans have known how to write for a lot longer than the Triangle Trade period, right? Or do you? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/30 "2008-04-29T04:33:06Z")
[QUOTE=RachelW] Well Einstein was Jewish. A subculture of White people maybe - and a sneaky one at that. [/QUOTE] Fuggin’ Jews. You’re drunk, aren’t you, **Diogenes**? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/31 "2008-04-29T04:33:15Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] White people have had longer to practice (and don’t forget, they intentionally tried to keep black people illiterate for a couple of centuries there). I think you also need to remember that there is a very rich African and Black-American tradition of _oral_ storytelling, though. [/QUOTE] Oh, kinda like rapping? Of which 95% or so is complete shite! But come on, **Dio** , stick to your music. Or have you come to your senses? ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/32 "2008-04-29T04:33:50Z")
Perhaps there is a kernel of arguability in the sentiment that certain African-American cultures are more expressionistically rhythmic, but to flat-out claim that “Blacks are better at music” is laughable. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/33 "2008-04-29T04:36:34Z")
[QUOTE=Ogre] Uh, wut? You know, of course, that Africans have known how to write for a lot longer than the Triangle Trade period, right? Or do you? [/QUOTE] There is literacy and there is literature. The African tradition of storytelling was oral, not written. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/34 "2008-04-29T04:37:48Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Oh, kinda like rapping? Of which 95% or so is complete shite! But come on, **Dio** , stick to your music. Or have you come to your senses? [/QUOTE] 95% of any genre is complete crap. As bad as most rap is, white rap is even worse. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/59ef9b/32.png) [@Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_fight_the_hypothetical)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/35 "2008-04-29T04:39:59Z")
Funny that this should come up. Last night I was watching some bio about Elvis and again for the millionth time they tossed in the old ‘Elvis stole from the blacks’ routine, as if every black musician invented the 12 bar progression independently. I was going to pit it but it appears I stopped, pivoted and jetted back into coolsville just in time. ETA: At first I though this was another stupid pitting, but Dio is slowly convincing me otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/36 "2008-04-29T04:40:15Z")
[QUOTE=Ogre] Fuggin’ Jews. You’re drunk, aren’t you, **Diogenes**? [/QUOTE] I might have had a berr. What differnce does that make? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/37 "2008-04-29T04:41:08Z")
I have this idea that maybe there aren’t really racial differences, only cultural. And _all else being equal,_ a person that is white, black, yellow, or a nice shade of celadon has the same chances of producing something great. Also, isn’t it obvious, that _all else being equal,_ despite physical traits, what a person is capable of, and what they achieve is all dependent on their own, individual interests and aspirations. Honestly, this thread is juvenile. We all know this stuff. Let’s pack it up, and have a hug. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/38 "2008-04-29T04:42:52Z")
This would be comedy gold were it not so tragic. Friend **Diogenes** , who loves to rail on people for bigotry, hypocrisy and the like, says something so abysmally stupid as to beg for someone to call him out. And then, instead of admitting it was stupid, he sticks to it like his life depends upon it. A six-page trainwreck ensues. It’s like clockwork. Old Faithful isn’t this reliable. ---
**Author:** ![Lama\_Pacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Lama\_Pacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lama_Pacos)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/39 "2008-04-29T04:43:27Z")
The issue isn’t quibbling over who the black and white teams :rolleyes: can each present, but rather that a view like “blacks are better at music” is a stupid, racist sentiment. In case anyone was absent that day in fifth grade, generalizations can be harmful whether or not they’re ‘positive’. Statements essentializing a race are unconstructive and simply invite further, more pernicious generalizations. I think anyone who’s observed Diogenes on this forum can probably conclude for his/herself that he’s typically uninterested in things like ‘self-evaluation’ or ‘dialogue’, so I don’t really see the point. But yes, this is racism. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/40 "2008-04-29T04:43:28Z")
[QUOTE=Don’t fight the hypothetical] Funny that this should come up. Last night I was watching some bio about Elvis and again for the millionth time they tossed in the old ‘Elvis stole from the blacks’ routine, as if every black musician invented the 12 bar progression independently. I was going to pit it but it appears I stopped, pivoted and jetted back into coolsville just in time. [/QUOTE] Are you saying that Elvis did not borrow heavily from black musicians? It wasn’t _all_ he took from. He had some country in there too and some Gospel (which I guess is also Black), but he was the first one to admit that his primary influence was R&B “race music.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311.md?page=3)