# Black are better at music—Or fuck you Diogenes the Cynic **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 29, 2008, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311 "2008-04-29T03:00:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Ocean\_Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8797f3/32.png) [@Ocean\_Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ocean_Annie)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/81 "2008-04-29T06:01:44Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] I guess I could have started a new thread in Great Debate to see if you could back up your racist crap, but I would rather just tell you to fuck off you racist piece of shit. So, fuck off you racist piece of shit. [/QUOTE] White men sing the blues, too! I still feel fairly new to the forum, but based on the posts I have read, I wouldn’t peg \*\*Diogenes the Cynic \*\*a racist or even remotely bigoted. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/82 "2008-04-29T06:05:32Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Dropped out of school? Couldn’t handle all that object learnin’? For the life of me though, if I had the skill to be classical guitar, I could not imagiine choosing to play something else, especially metal—which I admittedly don’t get. But a good friend of mine I worked with was like you. I knew he had been in metal bands, than one day he started playing some classical Spanish piece. I was floored. [/quote] Actually, I couldn’t handle the discipline. I graduated high school early and went straight into college. I was 17, away from my parents for the first time and I just didn’t have the discipline to practice 8 hours a day. Plus, I really liked writing my own stuff and classical training doesn’t really allow for much of that at first. I decided I wanted to go be a rock star instead. I had the hubris to think I was so supremely talented it was only a matter of time. When I got to be in my late 20’s and it still wasn’t happening, I was starting to feel lame playing at small clubs and I saw other guys that were older than me starting to lose their hair and look kind of pathetic still trying to act like teenagers, so I left my band (they didn’t have much trouble replacing me, the bastards) and went back to college and graduated this time. Looking back, I think that I was always a better songwriter than I was a performer. I was good, not great as a guitarist and barely passable as a singer, but I had a real knack for songwriting. > [@](#): > > I’ve just just fucking with you here. I don’t think you’re a racist. I think you just, as you say, made an off-hand comment and it got scrutinized. You simply misspoke. > > But then you went and made that comment about basketball. I KNOW you’re not trying to tell me that some black player is better than Bob Coozy? I mean, I’ve never even seen anyone attempt that running two-hand chest shot. And he used to pass the ball around his back!!! So, come on!!! Yu jest but somebody probably will try to flame me for that. Also why cite Coozy when you could have pulled out Larry Bird? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/83 "2008-04-29T06:07:04Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Oh, kinda like rapping? Of which 95% or so is complete shite! [/QUOTE] Invalid argumet: STURGEON’S LAW. While this whole thread and the vast majority of assertions in it are dumb, we should really not let clear laws of the universe be violated simply to attempt to make a point. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/84 "2008-04-29T06:08:48Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] Hey, on a less pit-like note, I have an off topic question. What do metal fans think of Metalocalypse? Even though its a parody, I take it to have demonstrated to me that metal can be real music. (I knew this in theory already, but didn’t experience it til seeing this series.) Weird reaction? Or makes sense? I mean from a metal perspective. -FrL- [/QUOTE] I love that show and the music really is pretty great. It’s not just parody music, it actually kicks ass. Maybe the cartoon format took you off your guard and let you listen a little more objectively than you normally would have? The neoclassical guitar shredding is pretty cool, isn’t it. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/85 "2008-04-29T06:09:41Z")
This is interesting, but it’s lacking some groundwork. **Dio** \*- 1. Why do you think black music in the U.S. doesn’t sound very much like black music from Africa? Actually, music from South America and the Caribbean tends to have much more in common with music from West Africa, as it sounds today, than any of the stuff being produced in the U.S. 2. Africa is a big place with a long history. Comments about racism aside, when saying that African storytelling is mostly oral in tradition, you’re using a brush so wide it’s staggering. \*Why am I suddenly reminded of Ronnie James? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/86 "2008-04-29T06:13:46Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] On the one hand, you don’t think there is a biological category of race. On the other hand, you think there are studies purporting to show that in general, black people’s brains work differently than white people’s brains. (And to be clear: You are inclined to think there could be something to these studies.) These two do not compute together. -FrL- [/QUOTE] The study alleged that the differences were an effect of culture, not biology. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/59ef9b/32.png) [@Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_fight_the_hypothetical)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/87 "2008-04-29T06:14:09Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Invalid argumet: STURGEON’S LAW. While this whole thread and the vast majority of assertions in it are dumb, we should really not let clear laws of the universe be violated simply to attempt to make a point. [/QUOTE] Well thank god we have you TND to bring the LOTU into play. I lurve being ignored on valid points… ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/88 "2008-04-29T06:18:20Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] Hey, on a less pit-like note, I have an off topic question. What do metal fans think of Metalocalypse? Even though its a parody, I take it to have demonstrated to me that metal can be real music. (I knew this in theory already, but didn’t experience it til seeing this series.) Weird reaction? Or makes sense? I mean from a metal perspective. -FrL- [/QUOTE] Are you kidding! Love it, watch it whenever it happens to claw its way onto my screen. Kids usually leave cartoon network on the tv after we put them to bed… then Adult Swim comes on. Metalocalypse is one of my favs. Up there with Robot Chicken and Aqua Teen. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/89 "2008-04-29T06:19:32Z")
This thread reminds me of a scene from a favorite mockumentary. > [@](#): > > Ruttling Orange Peel: Yes Sir, I originated The Rutles, they got it all from me. Every single bit of it. > Narrator: Well, how do you mean? > Ruttling Orange Peel: Well Sir, they come here and they took everything I ever written. Those four guys from Liverpool came here. > Mrs Peel: He’s lying! > Ruttling Orange Peel: I ain’t lying! > Mrs Peel: He’s always lying! > Ruttling Orange Peel: I ain’t lying! > Mrs Peel: Everytime there’s a documentary on white music around here he claims he started it all. > Ruttling Orange Peel: I did, I did, I did! > Mrs Peel: Last week he claimed he started Everly Brothers, Frank Sinatra and Lawrence Welk. He’s always lying! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/90 "2008-04-29T06:22:36Z")
[QUOTE=Charlie Tan] This is interesting, but it’s lacking some groundwork. **Dio** \*- 1. Why do you think black music in the U.S. doesn’t sound very much like black music from Africa? Actually, music from South America and the Caribbean tends to have much more in common with music from West Africa, as it sounds today, than any of the stuff being produced in the U.S. [/quote] Ever heard south African Jive? It sounds like 50’s doo wop. I imagine the reason Black American music doesn’t sound like African traditional music is that Black music in America has evolved considerably far away from those roots and I don’t think many Americans actually listen to African traditional music. > [@](#): > > 1. Africa is a big place with a long history. Comments about racism aside, when saying that African storytelling is mostly oral in tradition, you’re using a brush so wide it’s staggering. Am I? Where in Africa is there a long tradition of storytelling as written literature? Egypt maybe? where else? (By the way, I lived in Africa for two years, so I don’t need a lecture about how big it is) > [@](#): > > \*Why am I suddenly reminded of Ronnie James? A great, underappreciated singer. Cheesy but Great. His work with Sabbath was awesome. I used to love the _Heaven and Hell_ album. I should see if I can find that on CD somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/91 "2008-04-29T09:30:35Z")
This thread is ridiculous. I see your Hendrix, and raise you a [Fernando Sor](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_Sor). ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/92 "2008-04-29T10:54:24Z")
“They’re very musical people, aren’t they.” — Randolph Duke ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/93 "2008-04-29T11:47:02Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Fucking Mylie fucking Cyrus. [/QUOTE] Let’s wait till she’s 18, OK? ---
**Author:** ![Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scoundrel_Swanswater)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/94 "2008-04-29T11:56:20Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Who’s the white Satchmo, or 'Trane or Bird or Hendrix? [/QUOTE] I am not a fan of the Red Hot Chilli Peppers, but I think that John Frusciante is an absolutely amazing guitarist who is on the same level as Jimi Hendrix. As a kid he was able to play all Hendrix’ songs at about age 10. If you ever get a chance to see the Dutch documentary about the history of the Chili Peppers you should really take a look. That guy is an absolute guitar-god. It is too bad they he is playing in a mediocre pop-rock band. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/95 "2008-04-29T12:06:15Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] And the Beatles stole from Chuck Berry [/QUOTE] And Chuck Berry was imitating white hillbilly music. In fact that was his original niche, he was the black dude who played white music in honky tonks. You can only say “black people are better at music” if you assume that most music made by black people is better than most music made by white people, which is just a matter of opinion. Here you are defending it as if it were some kind of incontrovertible fact with racial evidence to back it up, and you’ll go down in flames rather than admit it was a fucking moronic thing to say. Keep digging that hole, and welcome to your new handle, Diogenes the Dumbass. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/96 "2008-04-29T12:12:20Z")
[QUOTE=Scoundrel Swanswater] It is too bad they he is playing in a mediocre pop-rock band. 😃 [/QUOTE] Seriously? The Red Hot Chili Peppers are even by objective standards one of the most unique rock bands ever to emerge and enjoy mainstream success. Their combination of eclectic musical and vocal styles, as well as their wide range of different sounds throughout their notably long career (25 years and still going!) puts them far above the level of just another pop-rock band. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/97 "2008-04-29T12:28:32Z")
Is there some objective way to measure musical ability? Sense of rhythm? I’ve never heard of one. But if such a test existed, it wouldn’t come as a shock to me if blacks scored higher on average. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/98 "2008-04-29T12:39:32Z")
If the music’s score for perfection is plotted along the horizontal of a graph, and its importance is plotted on the vertical, then calculating the total area of the music yields the measure of its greatness. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/99 "2008-04-29T13:22:33Z")
[Token, tu sai suonare il basso!](http://youtube.com/watch?v=HbxcaIOufPM&feature=related) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311/100 "2008-04-29T13:22:35Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] If I think Black music is better, does that mean I hate whites or blacks? [/QUOTE] Just America. Please tell me this whole thing was a whoosh, **Dio**. If not, **cmyk** wins the thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-are-better-at-music-or-fuck-you-diogenes-the-cynic/447311.md?page=6)