# Black Berets: way more special forces now, or just more berets? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 10, 2003, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-berets-way-more-special-forces-now-or-just-more-berets/147685 "2003-01-10T05:04:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Inky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7feea3/32.png) [@Inky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inky_1)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-berets-way-more-special-forces-now-or-just-more-berets/147685/1 "2003-01-10T05:04:25Z")
I can’t help noticing that, what all with all this (_cough_ _misguided_) military buildup for Desert Storm II: Electric Boogaloo, that it seems like there are a whole bunch more Special Forces personnel than usual on the news. Is it maybe that they’ve broadened Special Ops, or issued berets to other branches as well, or perhaps killed the elite status of the beret entirely? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-berets-way-more-special-forces-now-or-just-more-berets/147685/2 "2003-01-10T05:08:45Z")
Special Forces wear green berets. Some time in the last year or so, the Army decided to make the black beret standard issue for one of the uniforms. ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-berets-way-more-special-forces-now-or-just-more-berets/147685/3 "2003-01-10T05:13:03Z")
The entire US Army was [issued the Black Beret recently](http://www.army.mil/features/beret/beret.htm): > [@](#): > > 030011Z NOV 00 > > CSA SENDS - THE ARMY BLACK BERET > To symbolize The Army’s commitment to transforming itself into the Objective Force, The Army will adopt the black beret for wear Army-wide. The Rangers, for whom the Black Beret was a distinctive marker, have been rather upset by the decision. [Many retired Rangers](http://www.rangerblackberet.com/) have protested the change. > [@](#): > > The rest of the world should know, the veterans of the Ranger Community are saddened to see the Black Beret go to the rest of the Army. We fought hard to keep it in order to honor our brothers who were lost to some of the fiercest fighting our Nation has asked any soldier to participate in. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-berets-way-more-special-forces-now-or-just-more-berets/147685/4 "2003-01-10T05:16:24Z")
I read somewhere lots of troops are/were reluctant to wear them because they are made in China. ---
**Author:** ![Inky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7feea3/32.png) [@Inky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inky_1)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-berets-way-more-special-forces-now-or-just-more-berets/147685/5 "2003-01-10T05:30:07Z")
> [@](#): > > CSA SENDS - THE ARMY BLACK BERET > To symbolize The Army’s commitment to transforming itself into the **Objective Force** , The Army will adopt the black beret for wear Army-wide. ob·jec·tive _adj._ 1.Of or having to do with a material object. 2.Having actual existence or reality. 3.Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices: an objective critic. See Synonyms at fair(1). Er, huh? So they clearly exist, and in some physical form no less! Wow! It’s not just a job, it’s a metaphyisical state of existential self-awareness! As for definition #3, well, “Sgt. Rock’s Impartial and Unbiased Dragon Battalion” doesn’t quite have the same ring to it, huh? Thanks all. I figured it was something like this. Was well worth it for the chuckle though! ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-berets-way-more-special-forces-now-or-just-more-berets/147685/6 "2003-01-10T05:41:35Z")
> [@](#): > > I read somewhere lots of troops are/were reluctant to wear them because they are made in China. If I recall the story correctly, U.S. law requires uniforms to be made in the U.S.A. but the Army for some reason ordered and paid for berets made in China. After discovering the mistake, the Army destroyed the Chinese-made berets, and the troops were issued new American-made berets. ---
**Author:** ![censored](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/35a633/32.png) [@censored](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/censored)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-berets-way-more-special-forces-now-or-just-more-berets/147685/7 "2003-01-10T07:43:57Z")
Regular Army wears black, Rangers tan, paratroopers (and pararescue jumpers) maroon, and Special Forces green. ---
**Author:** ![Kilt-wearin\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kilt-wearin\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilt-wearin_man)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-berets-way-more-special-forces-now-or-just-more-berets/147685/8 "2003-01-10T14:06:57Z")
There was a major uproar when this decision was made - it was in all the papers and on all the news programs and news websites. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-berets-way-more-special-forces-now-or-just-more-berets/147685/9 "2003-01-10T14:19:09Z")
When I was in the Army I eventually had the _displeasure_ of wearing a maroon beret. The worst effect was the loss of a sun visor, which is probably the most valuable aspect of the old hat. Especially when standing in formation against the sun and not being allowed the use of sunglasses (in formation, that is). No, I wasn’t airborne – but my company was a off-site company from a batallion assigned to Fort Bragg – hence the _stupid_ (for us) berets. Of course, everyone would walk up to us (at Ft. Hood – Armor Division post) and ask us all kinds of airborne questions. I think the word “poser” described the feeling of wearing the beret as well. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-berets-way-more-special-forces-now-or-just-more-berets/147685/10 "2003-01-10T14:24:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Inky- \* > \*\*ob·jec·tive _adj._ > 1.Of or having to do with a material object. > 2.Having actual existence or reality. > 3.Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices: an objective critic. See Synonyms at fair(1). > > Er, huh? So they clearly exist, and in some physical form no less! Wow! It’s not just a job, it’s a metaphyisical state of existential self-awareness! > > As for definition #3, well, “Sgt. Rock’s Impartial and Unbiased Dragon Battalion” doesn’t quite have the same ring to it, huh? > > Thanks all. I figured it was something like this. Was well worth it for the chuckle though! \*\* Conveniently ignore the other, relevant, definition? Objective: _n_ 1. Something worked toward or striven for; a goal. And according to [the Army](http://www.objectiveforce.army.mil/) that objective is to make individual soldiers more lethal and survivable by orders of magnitude, among other things. Chameleon camo suits, smart bullets, gee-whiz things like that. ---
**Author:** ![royjwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@royjwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/royjwood)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-berets-way-more-special-forces-now-or-just-more-berets/147685/11 "2003-01-10T14:43:34Z")
I personally believe that a beret does not make a person any better of a soldier than the old BDU cap. I earned my beret a very long time ago, and I think that it really sucks what the government did. Especialy, when you try to wear a beret on a bright and sunny day! Better training, better pay and benefits, and better equipment make better soldiers, not some stupid beret that used to symbolize pride in earning something that many people never could. ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-berets-way-more-special-forces-now-or-just-more-berets/147685/12 "2003-01-10T14:53:28Z")
This is what I heard, which may or may not be true. Originally, it was only the elite-type forces that wore berets (French for “silly hats.”). The beret was associated with a certain _je-ne-sais-quoi_ (which is French for “ability to kick ass and take names,” unless I am mistaken.) So certain other countries, trying to tap into the mystique (French for, “That which we have, which you do not, you dork!”), made the beret part of the uniform for their army. So what you end up with is every schmuck in the army of every tin-pot dictator or Third-World Regime o’ the Month wearing the beret, symbol of kick-assingness, while members of the Army of the good ol’ U. S. of A. don’t. This is obviously an intolerable situation. I hear this from xth-hand, completely unreliable sources, none of them even remotely associated with the military, but it makes a certain amount of sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![royjwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@royjwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/royjwood)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-berets-way-more-special-forces-now-or-just-more-berets/147685/13 "2003-01-10T14:59:55Z")
I gotta hand it ya Podkayne, that sounds quite reasonable to me, too. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-berets-way-more-special-forces-now-or-just-more-berets/147685/14 "2003-01-10T15:35:58Z")
The dumbshit move by the Army brass is up there with the “Army of One” ad campaign, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-berets-way-more-special-forces-now-or-just-more-berets/147685/15 "2003-01-10T15:49:29Z")
I can never resist an opportunity for a The Onion article [http://www.theonion.com/onion3502/very\_special\_forces.html](http://www.theonion.com/onion3502/very_special_forces.html) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-berets-way-more-special-forces-now-or-just-more-berets/147685/16 "2003-01-10T15:59:00Z")
To everyone complaining about wearing berets… do you mean that the U.S. Army requires that they be worn _in the field_? Because back in the IDF, we only wore our berets as part of our dress uniform (i.e. when on leave, behind a desk or during the occasional ceremony); the rest of the time we wore the usual “duckbill” or “mushroom” hats - or helmets. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-berets-way-more-special-forces-now-or-just-more-berets/147685/17 "2003-01-10T16:06:10Z")
Well, the Army is VERY into fashion. Everything has to look just so… I mean, they (and the other branches) were nice enough to change their logo to those things that looks like they come from a campy sci-fi movie. Personally, I liked that move. If people weren’t already afraid of stealth bombers, laser guided bombs precise to the length of the schlongs, stealth helicopters, stealth tanks, stealth soldiers, stealth hand grenades, and guns that cost more than they will make in their lives, they’ll piss themselves when they see the quasi-futuristic markings on it all. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-berets-way-more-special-forces-now-or-just-more-berets/147685/18 "2003-01-10T16:07:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alessan \* > \*\*To everyone complaining about wearing berets… do you mean that the U.S. Army requires that they be worn _in the field_? Because back in the IDF, we only wore our berets as part of our dress uniform (i.e. when on leave, behind a desk or during the occasional ceremony); the rest of the time we wore the usual “duckbill” or “mushroom” hats - or helmets. \*\* I’m sure they prefer soldiers to wear their helmets in the field. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2003, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-berets-way-more-special-forces-now-or-just-more-berets/147685/19 "2003-01-10T16:10:35Z")
**Alessan** – we were an air traffic control unit, so our daily job wasn’t “in the field” per se. But our uniform was the standard Battle Dress Uniform (BDU) with the aweful beret. Sunny days sucked, but luckily I had a communications-electronics office (with air conditioning) to work in. The two or three times per year we went “to the field” (to play army for a week or so), the headgear was the K-pot (kevlar helmets). In the tent area, uniform was the beret anytime we were expecting the company commander (just a captain), othewise the BDU cap was permitted. This was before the black beret; I’m referring to the airborne beret.