# Black Caviar (racehorse): On track to be one of the greatest of all time? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 14, 2011, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-caviar-racehorse-on-track-to-be-one-of-the-greatest-of-all-time/581886 "2011-05-14T06:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-caviar-racehorse-on-track-to-be-one-of-the-greatest-of-all-time/581886/21 "2012-06-23T14:33:22Z")
> [@Krav\_Manga](#): > > If she wins this morning it will be 12 Group 1s and 22 straight. It would be difficult to dismiss all of the fields she’s faced as second (or even fourth) rate. Krav, not to get onto an argument, what she has done is sensational. She has been the best thing for racing since Gai Waterhouse. However, I will say she has met some ordinary fields and she has been protected. That is not diminishing her standing as the best sprinter of the last 20 years- possibly ever. (In Australia). I can’t see the horses opposing her tonight being a test. If she goes to Hong Kong or Dubai it may be different. She is a fabulous racehorse. I doubt that tonights result will change the mindset of a lot of Europeans that Frankel is still the best going around. ---
**Author:** ![Krav\_Manga](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/krav_manga/32/3153_2.png) [@Krav\_Manga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krav_Manga)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-caviar-racehorse-on-track-to-be-one-of-the-greatest-of-all-time/581886/22 "2012-06-23T14:38:55Z")
While Black Caviar’s connections are anything but battlers, they seem to be a reasonably modest syndicate of friends and acquaintances. I reckon that if Black Caviar jumped into an F1 car and won the Monaco GP, you’d complain that the field was rigged. ---
**Author:** ![Krav\_Manga](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/krav_manga/32/3153_2.png) [@Krav\_Manga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krav_Manga)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-caviar-racehorse-on-track-to-be-one-of-the-greatest-of-all-time/581886/23 "2012-06-23T14:40:09Z")
Sorry, didn’t see your further response! ---
**Author:** ![Krav\_Manga](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/krav_manga/32/3153_2.png) [@Krav\_Manga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krav_Manga)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-caviar-racehorse-on-track-to-be-one-of-the-greatest-of-all-time/581886/24 "2012-06-23T14:47:40Z")
Photo finish. ---
**Author:** ![Krav\_Manga](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/krav_manga/32/3153_2.png) [@Krav\_Manga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krav_Manga)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-caviar-racehorse-on-track-to-be-one-of-the-greatest-of-all-time/581886/25 "2012-06-23T14:48:42Z")
Black caviar on the nose! ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-caviar-racehorse-on-track-to-be-one-of-the-greatest-of-all-time/581886/26 "2012-06-23T14:53:42Z")
She won, but I expected her to win by a lot more. It is one race. We’ll see. (I forgot the race was on) ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-caviar-racehorse-on-track-to-be-one-of-the-greatest-of-all-time/581886/27 "2012-06-23T15:33:15Z")
I don’t follow Australian racing, but as a lifelong American racing fan - I’ve got no sympathy or interest in the claims that somehow she’s lucked into winning 22 races because every other horse in the race is a bum. If she’s nothing special, if a better horse could take her - well, let that better horse put his money where his mouth is. Apparently, all the people who own better horses must not like money, since they all apparently avoid races where Black Caviar runs. Is Frankel a better horse? Maybe. He’s probably better than any American horse of the last few years. But there’s only one to find out. Until then, Black Caviar is the champion sprinter. But I’m really posting here to say, someone is indulging in a little awsome wiki vandalism on [Black Caviar’s](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Caviar_%28horse%29) page: > [@](#): > > Sadly, in a horrendous accident shortly after her Ascot win, Black Caviar ate Her Majesty the Queen Elizabeth II, but on the sight of Clare Balding’s face, was disgracefully and promptly sick all over Willie Carson, leaving the Queen in a sickening mess in the paddock. Black Caviar will be shot in the morning. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-caviar-racehorse-on-track-to-be-one-of-the-greatest-of-all-time/581886/28 "2012-06-23T15:40:39Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > Yes- I just threw that up as a comparison. Battlers love their horse who has never won a race. And on his performances, I don’t think he will. > > I think he eats as much as Black Caviar though (who is owned by non battlers). Everyone loves a good maiden. My favourite was [Ouroene](http://fallenracehorsesaustralia.blogspot.com.au/2008/04/ouroene-aus.html). I only ever backed her 3 times, in trifectas and collected every time. She was very consistent rating the same thing time after time. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-caviar-racehorse-on-track-to-be-one-of-the-greatest-of-all-time/581886/29 "2012-06-23T15:46:01Z")
Even allowing that tonight’s run was the worst of her career [here](http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/superracing/sectionals-show-why-black-caviar-is-not-your-average-race-horse/story-fn67vvv7-1226268021541) is an article in which sectionals expert Vince Accardi explains why Black Caviar is so dominant. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-caviar-racehorse-on-track-to-be-one-of-the-greatest-of-all-time/581886/30 "2012-06-23T17:01:36Z")
> [@KellyCriterion](#): > > Still undefeated, it’s looking more and more likely. > > [Black Caviar romps home for 13th straight victory](http://www.smh.com.au/sport/black-caviar-romps-home-for-13th-straight-victory-20110514-1en8i.html) Has she set any course records? In 1973 the American 3-year old stallion Secretariat set course records _which still stand_ in all three legs of the Horse Racing US Triple Crown. I believe the first two legs of the USTC (the Kentucky Derby and the Preakness) were run on a slow track. Conditions were ideal for the final leg (the Belmont) where he won by something like 30 lengths, breaking the old record by two seconds. Somehow he lost a few races in his career. Girlfriend or other personal problems, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-caviar-racehorse-on-track-to-be-one-of-the-greatest-of-all-time/581886/31 "2012-06-23T20:03:29Z")
I’ve never known so much media hype! Decent enough mare, but she ain’t Frankel. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-caviar-racehorse-on-track-to-be-one-of-the-greatest-of-all-time/581886/32 "2012-06-24T02:16:33Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > Too bad she’s not a stallion, she’d be worth more later on in stud fees. But a mare can only pop out one a year. I really don’t follow horse racing much, but I have a few questions. How long is an average thoroughbred’s professional racing career? Can a breeding mare realistically race at all? When is a good time for a mare to start breeding, and when does she finish? How long is the average thoroughbred lifespan, assuming no accidents or “accidents”? I’m aware that some horses have accidental deaths that aren’t really accidents. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-caviar-racehorse-on-track-to-be-one-of-the-greatest-of-all-time/581886/33 "2012-06-24T20:30:27Z")
I don’t know about the relative merits of Black Caviar vs Frankel et al, nor am I a big fan of horse racing. However, what a beautiful creature! Don’t know if it is colouration or size or what but she is very striking-looking animal whether in motion or not. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-caviar-racehorse-on-track-to-be-one-of-the-greatest-of-all-time/581886/34 "2012-06-24T22:28:11Z")
Here is Red Rum winning the Grand National for the third time: [http://play.kendincos.com/182562/Wptfjptptrvjndhfj-red-rum-wins-his-3rd-grand-national-1977-avi.html](http://play.kendincos.com/182562/Wptfjptptrvjndhfj-red-rum-wins-his-3rd-grand-national-1977-avi.html) That’s the kind of horse that Kings go into battle on ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-caviar-racehorse-on-track-to-be-one-of-the-greatest-of-all-time/581886/35 "2013-04-17T05:36:49Z")
**Black Caviar has been retired** > [@](#): > > She finishes her career unbeaten after 25 starts, which includes a record 15 Group 1 victories. ([source](http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/superracing/decision-on-black-caviars-future-to-be-announced-at-3pm/story-fn67sphz-1226622637565)) Retires in comfortably outright 2nd place on the [all-time undefeated winners list](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_leading_Thoroughbred_racehorses#Undefeated_winners). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-caviar-racehorse-on-track-to-be-one-of-the-greatest-of-all-time/581886.md?page=1)