# Black coffee **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** coffee\ **Created:** [July 5, 2009, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-coffee/501954 "2009-07-05T02:58:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dalai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/94ad74/32.png) [@Dalai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dalai)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-coffee/501954/61 "2013-06-18T15:50:54Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > And the earlier posts in this thread show anecdotaly that there are indeed places where people hold that black coffee is merely coffee without cream. This claims that there are places where everyone agrees on the meaning of “black coffee.” In America that would likely only be true in a restaurant where everyone is taught what is meant in that building. I think you could go to any city in the country with more than 100 people and find disagreement. This is something you fail to see. > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Dalai, I’m not going to address your latest post point by point You don’t have to, but my friend, you have not addressed a single point I’ve made…in any of my posts. I could, once again, apply reason to what you have said, but you would not address a single issue. What lets me know that I am right is that if I did respond to you now, I would recycle what I have said prior, and I would show how it does punch holes in your argument. You just say new stuff. If you can’t discuss even one point I’ve made, there is a reason. I’ve logically body-slammed you. > [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > (emphasis added) > > Sorry, folks, but with this one I really can’t resist. > > It’s pore (to read or study with attention and application), not pour. > > And it’s spelled humorous (unless you meant humerus, referencing an arm bone, but I can’t make that make sense in context). > > More pomp and circumstance to come, I’m sure. > Roddy Hah! You prove my point. First, if I spelled something wrong, it does not address my point, or prove you right about anything except my pour spelling. 😛 Why the attitude? Probably because you were bullied as a child. Also, you are trying to prove that standardization is valuable, which I would agree with, but in many areas, “incorrect” spelling is the norm. Why are you being such a stickler? ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-coffee/501954/62 "2013-06-18T15:57:17Z")
> [@Dalai](#): > > Why the attitude? Probably because you were bullied as a child. I don’t know about you guys, but the above bit of reasoning really dazzled me. > [@](#): > > Also, you are trying to prove that standardization is valuable, which I would agree with, but in many areas, “incorrect” spelling is the norm. Why are you being such a stickler? Irony meter = blowed up. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-coffee/501954/63 "2013-06-18T16:14:26Z")
If someone said “I’m drinking my coffee black today!” I’d take it to mean no sugar or cream or additives of any time. But if someone said, “I’d like my coffee black, 1 sugar” I wouldn’t think they were speaking in some riddled contradiction either. I think it works fine in either context. Saying “I’ll have my coffee black with 2 creams and 1 sugar” would be stupid though. ---
**Author:** ![Dalai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/94ad74/32.png) [@Dalai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dalai)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-coffee/501954/64 "2013-06-18T22:05:36Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > If someone said “I’m drinking my coffee black today!” I’d take it to mean no sugar or cream or additives of any time. But if someone said, “I’d like my coffee black, 1 sugar” I wouldn’t think they were speaking in some riddled contradiction either. I think it works fine in either context. > > Saying “I’ll have my coffee black with 2 creams and 1 sugar” would be stupid though. Again, if I say “I take my coffee black,” and that could mean with or without sugar, then “black” is not completely clear. Do you disagree with that? ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-coffee/501954/65 "2013-06-19T00:36:26Z")
> [@Dalai](#): > > There may be no consensus, but there is a correct answer. People in different regions could call coffee with tree bark in it “Black,” but that would be a bastardization of the term; so it is a bastardization to call coffee with only sugar “Black” even though it is in fact that color. > > When we talk about coffee in terms of its color “Black,” we are referring to more than just its color, and this is the beauty of language. Language allows us to say what we mean in a clear manner, even if the ignorant masses (not stupid, just ignorant) cloud the facts with a team of like-minded wrong-way thinking. > > When someone asks how you want your coffee and you say, “Black,” you are in fact asking for coffee with nothing else in it, but that’s too easy. Let me make a case. > > If you say “A little sugar” it is clear you want a little sugar, though the exact amount is up for interpretation. You will most likely add your own sugar anyway. This sounds like you are a formal guest at someone’s house and they are going to serve you coffee. Regardless, “A little sugar,” or “A teaspoon of sugar” is quite clear. > > If you say, “One cream,” you have made your request clearly and successfully. You will likely get your coffee as desired, though you still won’t know how clean the cup really was when pulled from the cupboard. > > If you say “Cream and sugar,” in any of its myriad of variations, you’ll likely get both ingredients in your coffee, and you can then enjoy some nice conversation. > > If you say, “Black,” You have left out all ingredients in your request. You simply want your coffee straight so you can enjoy the taste of the coffee, something impossible to do when adulterated. > > When people now claim that “Black with sugar” is still legitimately “Black” coffee, I would say that they are correct in terms of color, but we see wasted speech, a bit of irrelevance. The color of the coffee in this case has no bearing on how you want your drink. We could say that we want our coffee wet, but that would be ridiculous. The fact that the coffee is black is just as ridiculous a point to make. The person putting a single sugar cube in your coffee can plainly see that there are no colors in the coffee. It is obviously black, wet, and (hopefully) hot. > > Such pointless commentary is why people coined the term, “Captain Obvious.” > > I can wink at someone and let them know I think they are cute. I can wink at someone and let them know I am just kidding. By the same token, we can say that coffee is “Black” and be referring to more than just the color of the coffee. We can also be referring to a lack of ingredients. > > Forgetting about sitting down to order–thinking only in terms of the question for the debate, it isn’t fair that the ignorant force those in the know to specify what they mean by black. If you want to say the word “black” when you order coffee with sugar, for some strange reason, then go ahead, but don’t make me specify “Black, no sugar.” I choose to say what I mean without the superfluous. The next thing you know, I’ll have to say, “Black, no sugar, no flavoring, no anything else Starbucks might add that doesn’t have a color” just because there are/may be a multitude of ingredients that trend, but don’t add color to my coffee. > > If “Black” coffee is not sufficient to indicate “No ingredients,” then it really doesn’t mean anything at all. Think about it. If “Black” could mean “Nothing but coffee” and it could mean, “Black with sugar,” then you would have to clarify what you mean by “Black” which would mean that “Black” is not clear by itself; therefore if “Black” is intended to be clear and complete, it must have a single meaning. Since “Black” does not state “sugar” outright, and since “sugar” only requires the word “sugar” to be requested," then “Black” must mean “nothing added”…and it does! Um… what? ---
**Author:** ![Dalai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/94ad74/32.png) [@Dalai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dalai)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-coffee/501954/66 "2013-06-19T01:16:54Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Um… what? If you didn’t understand a single thing I said, then I can’t help you. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-coffee/501954/67 "2013-06-19T01:36:32Z")
> [@Dalai](#): > > . . . First, if I spelled something wrong, it does not address my point, or prove you right about anything except my pour spelling. 😛 Why the attitude? Probably because you were bullied as a child. > > Also, you are trying to prove that standardization is valuable, which I would agree with, but in many areas, “incorrect” spelling is the norm. Why are you being such a stickler? Er… I agree with you about coffee. About spelling, not so much. > [@drewtwo99](#): > > If someone said “I’m drinking my coffee black today!” I’d take it to mean no sugar or cream or additives of any time. But if someone said, “I’d like my coffee black, 1 sugar” I wouldn’t think they were speaking in some riddled contradiction either. . . . I would… Sure, it’s clear what is meant, but it’s still contradictory. It’s like someone saying, “I’ll dine alfresco, but in here.” Okay, his intent is clear, but he’s using the word wrong. “I want my eggs scrambled, but with the yolk unbroken.” Again, I see what he wants, but he clearly isn’t using the words correctly. Wait staff have to deal with this a lot… (My dad, a Navy barber, once had a lieutenant ask for his hair to be cut “short on the outside but long on the inside.” The lieutenant then dozed off in the barber chair. My dad just shrugged and gave him a standard lieutenant’s buzz cut. The guy seemed happy, but all the rest of his life, my dad wondered what the dickens the guy had meant.) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-coffee/501954/68 "2013-06-19T02:31:18Z")
Welcome to the SDMB, **Dalai**! 🙂 Also, congratulations; over the course of this resurrected zombie thread, you have done more to cause me to rethink the superiority of prescriptivism than nearly fourteen years of browbeating by the board’s descriptivists have managed to accomplish. ---
**Author:** ![Dalai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/94ad74/32.png) [@Dalai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dalai)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-coffee/501954/69 "2013-06-19T03:13:30Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Er… I agree with you about coffee. About spelling, not so much. What’s not to agree with about poor spelling? I mean, what did I say? Someone ignores the whole point I was making and chooses to comment on my spelling…as if this person has never misspelled a word. It just seems like a weak victory. > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Welcome to the SDMB, **Dalai**! 🙂 > > Also, congratulations; over the course of this resurrected zombie thread, you have done more to cause me to rethink the superiority of prescriptivism than nearly fourteen years of browbeating by the board’s descriptivists have managed to accomplish. Thanks kaylasdad99. I’m glad I may have helped turn you away from the dark side. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-coffee/501954/70 "2013-06-19T03:25:24Z")
I swear to god, if I order black coffee and you put sugar in it, there is going to be serious trouble. If you don’t immediately replace it and try to play games telling me sugared coffee is still black, I’m breaking your nose. ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-coffee/501954/71 "2013-06-19T04:43:02Z")
If the Zombie is up, might as well play with it. In the areas of AUS where I’ve been, Black coffee meant no milk, white coffee meant milk. Simple. Whether you wanted sugar or not was a separate question, no one would assume you want sugar and put it in, you’d either be asked how many sugars or would get it served without sugar and put in your own. But Black and White were clearly about colour only. Nowdays, less and less places have the drip filter coffee and more use the Barista run contraption and create things with weird names.l [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-coffee/501954.md?page=3)