# Black fly in Chardonnay: how is it ironic? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 28, 2005, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-fly-in-chardonnay-how-is-it-ironic/287025 "2005-01-28T01:02:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-fly-in-chardonnay-how-is-it-ironic/287025/1 "2005-01-28T01:02:59Z")
In _Ironic_, Alanis Morisette (sp?) sings about a black fly in one’s Chardonnay. How is this ironic or like any of the other situations she brings up (death pardon two minutes too late, rain on one’s wedding day, meeting man of one’s dreams and then his beautiful wife, etc.)? If one has a fly, of whatever color, in one’s Chardonnay one can get another glass, no? Please help me to understanding this lyric. WRS - Maybe I’m taking her suggestion to think a bit too far. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-fly-in-chardonnay-how-is-it-ironic/287025/2 "2005-01-28T01:08:56Z")
Most people agree that her song has nothing at all to do with irony. Which is, in itself, ironic. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-fly-in-chardonnay-how-is-it-ironic/287025/3 "2005-01-28T01:09:10Z")
They aren’t ironic. Some people argue that Alanis is being sneaky by deliberately calling non-ironic things ironic. Isn’t that ironic? No. No, it’s not. It makes lno want to smash. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-fly-in-chardonnay-how-is-it-ironic/287025/4 "2005-01-28T01:40:02Z")
Strikes me as more [Kafkaesque](http://www.msnhill.com/) than ironic. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-fly-in-chardonnay-how-is-it-ironic/287025/5 "2005-01-28T01:47:30Z")
> [@lno](#): > > Some people argue that Alanis is being sneaky by deliberately calling non-ironic things ironic. Isn’t that ironic? Actually, that _would_ be ironic, since irony is simply saying something that means one thing, with the intention of conveying the opposite meaning. Except I don’t think that’s what she’s doing. I think that she simply doesn’t know what irony means. And singing a song about irony when you don’t know what irony means isn’t ironic. It’s just stupid. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-fly-in-chardonnay-how-is-it-ironic/287025/6 "2005-01-28T02:00:27Z")
I figured it was because the black fly was in the white wine. I doubt this qualifies as irony though. I wound’t know, I send my shirts to a service. ---
**Author:** ![chaoticbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-fly-in-chardonnay-how-is-it-ironic/287025/7 "2005-01-28T02:00:51Z")
Well, assuming it’s _Chardonnay_ Chardonnay, and is expensive like I’m assuming it is, the black fly in it would just suck, like everything else in that song. Is there a distinction between Chardonnay and impostors, like Champagne and sparkling wine? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-fly-in-chardonnay-how-is-it-ironic/287025/8 "2005-01-28T02:03:54Z")
> [@chaoticdonkey](#): > > Well, assuming it’s _Chardonnay_ Chardonnay, and is expensive like I’m assuming it is, the black fly in it would just suck, like everything else in that song. > > Is there a distinction between Chardonnay and impostors, like Champagne and sparkling wine? Sort of. The Champagne distinction comes from the region in France where it is made. Chardonnay is just the type of grape that it’s made from. So it’s the same in that a chardonnay wine must be made from chardonnay grapes, and champagne must come from the Champagne region of France - but chardonnay can come from any region. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-fly-in-chardonnay-how-is-it-ironic/287025/9 "2005-01-28T02:36:08Z")
> [@chaoticdonkey](#): > > Well, assuming it’s _Chardonnay_ Chardonnay, and is expensive like I’m assuming it is, the black fly in it would just suck, like everything else in that song. > > Is there a distinction between Chardonnay and impostors, like Champagne and sparkling wine? Chardonnay need not be expensive. Chardonnay is simply, as **Neurotic** explained, wine made from Chardonnay grapes. It’s kind of considered the classiest of the white wines, but I prefer the roughness of a Sauvignon Blanc myself (which traditionally people say smells like a cross between freshly cut grass and cat pee. I honestly don’t get the cat pee comment, because I’ve never smelt a sauvignon blanc that reminded me of it. But it’s the typical comment.) Chardonnay is a specific kind of grape, just like Zinfandel, Shiraz, Cabernet Franc, Pinot Noir, Pinot Grigio, Muscatel, Merlot, Riesling, etc. If you mix grapes, the resulting wine is a “Cuvee.” There are many famous cuvees out there. (Mixing Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, and Merlot is pretty common. Wines such as Chateau Neuf du Pape are also famous, and upscale, cuvees.) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-fly-in-chardonnay-how-is-it-ironic/287025/10 "2005-01-28T02:37:09Z")
> [@](#): > > You know, Alanis, you’ve sat and listed shit for ten minutes and not a damn one of them is ironic. A black fly in your champagne is not ironic, it’s unfortunate. You know what irony is? Irony is a Scotsman cloning a sheep. Irony is naming the national airport after the guy who fired all the air traffic controllers. -comedian Sabrina Matthews ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-fly-in-chardonnay-how-is-it-ironic/287025/11 "2005-01-28T02:40:57Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Except I don’t think that’s what she’s doing. I think that she simply doesn’t know what irony means. And singing a song about irony when you don’t know what irony means isn’t ironic. It’s just stupid. Right. My rage had clouded my mind so much that I misspoke. I still want to smash. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-fly-in-chardonnay-how-is-it-ironic/287025/12 "2005-01-28T03:01:02Z")
“Waiter! What’s this black fly doing in my chardonnay?” _waits for it…_ ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-fly-in-chardonnay-how-is-it-ironic/287025/13 "2005-01-28T03:09:36Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > -comedian Sabrina Matthews Yeah, she was very funny. I wonder what she’s up to. I’m not sure if either of those things is actually ironic, but (unlike the song) at least it’s amusing. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-fly-in-chardonnay-how-is-it-ironic/287025/14 "2005-01-28T03:15:57Z")
None of the things in the song are, in fact, ironic. What _was_ ironic was the time someone on this here message board asked why Americans have no sense of irony and used that song as proof. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-fly-in-chardonnay-how-is-it-ironic/287025/15 "2005-01-28T03:30:47Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > What _was_ ironic was the time someone on this here message board asked why Americans have no sense of irony and used that song as proof. No, I’m not sure that’s ironic either. MOronic, perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-fly-in-chardonnay-how-is-it-ironic/287025/16 "2005-01-28T03:35:30Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > “Waiter! What’s this black fly doing in my chardonnay?” > > _waits for it…_ The backstroke! Ba-dum-bum! Thank you! I’ll be here all week. Try the veal, and be sure to tip your waitress! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-fly-in-chardonnay-how-is-it-ironic/287025/17 "2005-01-28T06:02:30Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > What _was_ ironic was the time someone on this here message board asked why Americans have no sense of irony and used that song as proof. Actually, if the poster meant United Statesians (if that a word?) rather than Americans, it might be a little ironic as Miss Morissette is a Canadian. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-fly-in-chardonnay-how-is-it-ironic/287025/18 "2005-01-28T09:36:46Z")
I remember a female comedian (not sure if it was the same one mentioned above) talking about this song once… she said “Rain on your wedding day? That’s not ironic… _Rape_ on your wedding day… now that’s ironic!” ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-fly-in-chardonnay-how-is-it-ironic/287025/19 "2005-01-28T10:37:14Z")
There’s an Irish comedain called Ed Burne who had made a whole career\* out of disparaging that particular song… > [@](#): > > Irish comedian Ed Byrne risked her wrath by coming on afterwards and insisting the song was a catalogue of events which were not ironic, merely unfortunate. “Rain on your wedding day is only ironic if it’s a weatherman setting the date,” he joked. “The only thing ironic about the song is that its called Ironic and it’s written by a woman who doesn’t understand what irony is.” - not strictly true ---
**Author:** ![cryptic\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@cryptic\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cryptic_j)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-fly-in-chardonnay-how-is-it-ironic/287025/20 "2005-01-28T11:51:18Z")
> [@Aro](#): > > There’s an Irish comedain called Ed Burne who had made a whole career\* out of disparaging that particular song… I was just thinking of that… the funniest one he said was something like… > [@Ed Burne](#): > > [paraphrase]Being stuck in traffic isn’t Ironic. If you were the town planner it would be. If you were the town planner - on the way to a meeting where you were being given an award for the excellent twon planning which had reduced traffic congestion - - now that![/paraphrase] as I say - - I’m not quite right on the wording… I’m sure someone can transcribe it though 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-fly-in-chardonnay-how-is-it-ironic/287025.md?page=2)