# black irish **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 11, 2007, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609 "2007-12-11T14:12:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![peace2joan\_yahoo.com](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@peace2joan\_yahoo.com](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peace2joan_yahoo.com)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/1 "2007-12-11T14:12:28Z")
i hear alotta different opinions about what “black irish” means. I am lst generation irish american & my peeps tell me that is what the irish called the irish who gave up their religion 2 join the church of england so that they could keep their property. Usually in the english language black is not a good thing, like black ball, black list, black day, etc. I would like 2 hear if anyone else has heard that version of the phrase. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/2 "2007-12-11T14:19:04Z")
[wikipedia sez otherwise](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Irish) I’ve also heard it (only very rarely) used as a euphemism for ‘non-white ancestry’, as wikipedia puts it. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/3 "2007-12-11T14:21:02Z")
Originally the Irish were blond haired and blue eyed just like the British. But then the country got invaded by the Moors. And the moors are niggers. They did _so much fucking,_ they changed the bloodline forever. You’re…part eggplant! OK, just kidding. That’s actually the Sicilians. Sorry. [(Link if you didn’t get the above joke.)](http://youtube.com/watch?v=wIzHOfC0cMU) [Black Irish on Wikipedia.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Irish) [Cecil’s column on the Black Irish.](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a930730.html) I’ve only heard the term in reference to people with Irish names who look more Italian than Irish. As in, “he must be black Irish, ha ha.” Not used in a serious way, as if there were actually a race of “black Irish.” I do know that the Irish were not considered white upon their arrival to America, and if you look at cartoons of them from the 1800s, they’re depicted as knuckle-dragging apes. I never understood this, since Irish always meant to me “as white as you can get,” but I guess the British and Scottish upper-classes had a very different definition of “white.” ---
**Author:** ![Litoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@Litoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Litoris)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/4 "2007-12-11T15:07:18Z")
\ [QUOTE=Argent Towers] Originally the Irish were blond haired and blue eyed just like the British. But then the country got invaded by the Moors. And the moors are niggers. They did _so much fucking,_ they changed the bloodline forever. [/QUOTE] Thanks for the morning giggle – I _lurved_ that scene! I swear to Og, I was just talking about yesterday – how i honestly can not think of a movie that he has been in that was not _way the fuck out in left field_ and yet, he is one of my all-time favourite actors. \ ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/5 "2007-12-11T15:26:42Z")
Black Irish = hot, IME. ---
**Author:** ![Galwegian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galwegian/32/3426_2.png) [@Galwegian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galwegian)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/6 "2007-12-11T15:32:08Z")
As Cecil says in the linked column, it’s definitely not a phrase you’d hear around here. There are plenty of recent immigrants to Ireland: the PC term at present seems to have gone from “Foreign Nationals” to “New Irish”. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/7 "2007-12-11T15:35:38Z")
Yeah, whatever it means and whereever it came from it’s not really an Irish term. I’ve only heard it when people are referencing Americans using the term. There are a lot of black haired blue eyed Irish though. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/8 "2007-12-11T15:36:38Z")
“Black Irish” is a phrase almost never heard in Ireland. I’ve only heard it there in discussion of Cecil’s column, with fellow Dopers in a pub. That said, I’ve met a few scorching hot Irish ladies who fulfil the description, so that look does exist there. ETA: oh yeah, what them paddies upthread said. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/9 "2007-12-11T15:37:03Z")
[QUOTE=Cat Fight] Black Irish = hot, IME. [/QUOTE] Correction: _Irish_ = hot. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Galwegian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galwegian/32/3426_2.png) [@Galwegian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galwegian)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/10 "2007-12-11T15:39:25Z")
[QUOTE=Sunspace] _Irish_ = hot. 🙂 [/QUOTE] Why thank you! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![KC\_Bravelens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eb8c5e/32.png) [@KC\_Bravelens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KC_Bravelens)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/11 "2007-12-11T20:18:28Z")
[hijack] Jimmy: “Do you not get it, lads? The Irish are the blacks of Europe. And Dubliners are the blacks of Ireland. And the Northside Dubliners are the blacks of Dublin. So say it once, say it loud: I’m black and I’m proud”. [end hijack] 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/12 "2007-12-11T21:22:04Z")
[QUOTE=Sunspace] _Irish_ = hot. 🙂 [/QUOTE] I have to say that, I married one. Seriously though, have you _been_ to Ireland? Most of them look like potatoes. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/13 "2007-12-11T21:32:19Z")
[QUOTE=Galwegian] Why thank you! 🙂 [/QUOTE] So, uh, you female? /worst line ever… ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/14 "2007-12-11T21:35:39Z")
As I posted in a similar thread before, black is often used to mean protestant in parts of Ireland. Perhaps it originates from that. ‘Black Irish’ is on the Irish census but I think it refers to people of African descent born in Ireland. [http://www.cso.ie/census/Question14\_000.htm](http://www.cso.ie/census/Question14_000.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2007, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/15 "2007-12-11T22:20:38Z")
Slight Hijack. I grew up hearing the Black Irish stuff. Pretty much was weaned on it. In my Mother’s opinion, if you aren’t Irish, well, you wish you were. :rolleyes: Being that both sides of her family (dad’s and mom’s side) both came from Ireland to Canukistan, she was weaned on Irish! Irish! RAH! RAH! RAH! etc. So, a few years ago, my mom had this problem with her hand locking up. After awhile it would unlock itself. She chalked it up to Old Age (and did not see a doctor about it.) A couple of years into this sporatic and increasing hand locking problem, she was at a family reunion and found out that one of the cousins had this problem too. He had surgery to correct it. She gets into the doctor’s office for the consult and finds out that this hand locking problem is indicative of people of Scandanavian heritage. THAT, my friends, put a bee up my mother’s nose and I have been wanting to buy some kind of Viking warrior thingie for her since. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2007, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/16 "2007-12-12T00:05:52Z")
My father was born and raised in Lancashire, England, by a mother who was half-Irish (and it was apparently somewhat scandalous when Granddad married her :eek: ) I have a younger brother who’s apparently the spitting image of his Irish great-grandfather with black, curly hair and blue eyes (yes, he’s handsome, and smart, too!). I’ve always thought of him as “Black Irish” in terms of looks and I assume I got the term from Dad it was either him or Mum, and she was born and raised in Surrey. Maybe it’s a British-ism, not an Irish-ism? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Scubaqueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@Scubaqueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scubaqueen)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2007, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/17 "2007-12-12T03:59:23Z")
[QUOTE=An Gadaí] As I posted in a similar thread before, black is often used to mean protestant in parts of Ireland. Perhaps it originates from that. ‘Black Irish’ is on the Irish census but I think it refers to people of African descent born in Ireland. > **[Census - CSO - Central Statistics Office](https://www.cso.ie/en/census/)** [/QUOTE] hmm. while i do happen to be an ‘orangeman’ (protestant) myself and actually don’t wear green on st. patrick’s day, i was always told the black irish ancestry referred to very pale skin and very dark hair. my eyes are hazel, though, not blue. gotta say the african descent thing is a totally new wrinkle! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2007, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/18 "2007-12-12T15:22:12Z")
**Shirley Ujest** , Ireland was raided repeatedly, and the east of Ireland was settled by, the Vikings (“Dublin” is “Dubh Linn” from old Norse), so it’s not particularly outlandish. ---
**Author:** ![Pixilated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/aeb1de/32.png) [@Pixilated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixilated)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2007, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/19 "2007-12-12T15:32:34Z")
lol I remember making fun of my brother when he was younger because he thought we had black-african in our blood (we had some ancestors referred to as black-irish). My Mom made me explain and convince him that it meant pale skin w/black hair… not black skin! She always took away my fun (sniff_sniff_) ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2007, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/20 "2007-12-12T15:33:05Z")
[Viking Ireland](http://www.ncte.ie/viking/vikage.htm) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609.md?page=2)