# black irish **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 11, 2007, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609 "2007-12-11T14:12:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sir\_Doris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@Sir\_Doris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Doris)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2007, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/21 "2007-12-12T16:10:10Z")
[QUOTE=Siege] Maybe it’s a British-ism, not an Irish-ism? 😕 [/QUOTE] I’ve only heard it used by Americans (and only on these boards, not in real life). I’ve lived in various parts of England, and spent close on 20 years in an academic environment which means mixing with people from all over the UK and beyond. It’s an Americanism and I’d be willing to pay for the beers\* if anyone can demonstrate otherwise. \*In my local/pub of choice, not yours. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2007, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/22 "2007-12-12T17:09:49Z")
Careful – I’ve got relatives in your neck of the woods! My parents were both adults when we moved to the States; I’ll have to ask Dad where he got “Black Irish” from. It’s something I grew up hearing. Of course, I do get lingustically confused at times. ---
**Author:** ![Seabhac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@Seabhac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seabhac)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2007, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/23 "2007-12-12T17:27:44Z")
Just registered to reply to this. Not to contradict anyone who’s posted previously but I’m Irish and I’ve actually heard the term used fairly frequently. It just means someone with dark hair and a darker skin tone than most Irish people (not actually dark skinned, just someone not as incredibly pasty as your typical Celt!). It implies the person is of Spanish descent from the time of the Spanish Armada which is why there is supposed to be a large concentration of “black Irish” in Galway where the Armada landed. It doesn’t have anything to do with having actual black ancestry, in fact the Irish for a black person is “duine gorm” which literally means blue person. Actually it probably says a lot about the general skin tone of Irish people that anyone who is distinguishable naked from a white wall could be called black Irish! ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2007, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/24 "2007-12-12T18:02:51Z")
At least part of the time, way back when, Black Irish was a euphenism for someone who was of mixed ancestry (usually black and/or Native American) and didn’t want to be subjected to the “one drop rule”. Melungeons used the term (also Black Dutch) that way, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_in\_second\_hand\_clothing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9d8465/32.png) [@wolf\_in\_second\_hand\_clothing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_in_second_hand_clothing)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2007, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/25 "2007-12-12T18:53:21Z")
Oh, like [Black Tom Cassidy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Tom_Cassidy). He was the evil one, always causing trouble with that shillelagh of his. Nothing like his upstanding, fair skinned, red haired cousin [Sean.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banshee_%28comics%29) ---
**Author:** ![Litoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@Litoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Litoris)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2007, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/26 "2007-12-12T18:58:38Z")
Southern US girl checking in on this one. We have a lot – and I do mean a _lot_ – of Irish here in TN, and I always heard the term in reference to dark-haired Irish. My father’s family all referred to me as “black Irish” growing up because of my dark hair. Oddly enough, I was born blonde and had fire-engine red heair until around 2nd grade when it started getting darker. Of course, much like “Yank,” I think the term may just mean different things to different people. ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2007, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/27 "2007-12-12T19:20:40Z")
Oklahoma, USA I’ve always understood the term to mean Irish people with dark hair/eyes, as opposed to the red hair/green eyes that people (here) think of as “Irish”. That’s how I’ve almost always heard it used. As in…“What’s your ancestry?” “Oh, I’m mostly Irish.” “You can’t be Irish, you’ve got black hair and blue eyes!” “Yeah, my family’s Black Irish.” [Not that I ever got that, with my bright orange hair, green eyes, and pasty white skin, but I heard it from other people.] OTOH, my mom’s first husband’s family called themselves Black Irish, but from other evidence I’d say it was in the manner mentioned by **An Arky**. By all available information, they were Indian, probably Cherokee. That was something you just Did Not Admit in Oklahoma prior to the 70s. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2007, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/28 "2007-12-13T13:42:36Z")
Fir bolgs the lot of ye. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2007, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/29 "2007-12-13T14:12:10Z")
As I learned it “Black Irish” had nothing to do with hair color, but was the term for those who weren’t **“Lace Curtain Irish.”** I always assumed it had to do with coal dust, bog mud, whatever color a pig’s feces are when it’s fed on potato skins, etc. Plus, you can MST3K any documentary on Irish history by interjecting every five minutes or so, as yet another calmity befalls the Irish, with the phrase _“And sure’n that was a black day for Ireland!”_ ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2007, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/30 "2007-12-13T17:31:29Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] **Shirley Ujest** , Ireland was raided repeatedly, and the east of Ireland was settled by, the Vikings (“Dublin” is “Dubh Linn” from old Norse), so it’s not particularly outlandish. [/QUOTE] I know this, but my mother - who lives under a bigger rock than I - was affronted with the thought of Ireland being anything but inhabited by the Irish. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2007, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609/31 "2007-12-13T18:22:26Z")
[QUOTE=Shirley Ujest] I know this, but my mother - who lives under a bigger rock than I - was affronted with the thought of Ireland being anything but inhabited by the Irish. [/QUOTE] Better not tell her that any Irish “Fitz-” name (Fitzgerald, Fitzpatrick, etc.) is from Norman stock then! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-irish/429609.md?page=1)