# Black Lives Matter... A flawed phrase **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 9, 2016, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-lives-matter-a-flawed-phrase/759450 "2016-07-09T01:58:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-lives-matter-a-flawed-phrase/759450/61 "2016-07-10T00:30:29Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Because the Gay Pride movement didn’t say that other people can’t be proud too. BLM says people have to choose between ‘black lives matter’ and ‘all lives matter’. Which is a horrible message no matter what they intend. Really? I thought BLM says people have to choose between ‘black lives matter’ and ‘black lives DON’T matter.’ Just as I always thought the Gay Pride movement was more about denying that there should be a Gay Shame status quo. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-lives-matter-a-flawed-phrase/759450/62 "2016-07-10T00:35:33Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Really? I thought BLM says people have to choose between ‘black lives matter’ and ‘black lives DON’T matter.’ > > Just as I always thought the Gay Pride movement was more about denying that there should be a Gay Shame status quo. People who say they represent BLM have made a practice of asking the question, “Black lives matter or all lives matter”. It’s dumb messaging. I think it’s counter-productive. They have to change minds to be effective, I don’t notice that happening. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-lives-matter-a-flawed-phrase/759450/63 "2016-07-10T00:43:51Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > People who say they represent BLM have made a practice of asking the question, “Black lives matter or all lives matter”. I don’t think this is true. BLM made a practice of stating “black lives matter”. Other parties tried to negate that message by countering with “all lives matter”. Of course BLM has to respond by highlighting the contrast. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-lives-matter-a-flawed-phrase/759450/64 "2016-07-10T00:50:33Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I don’t think this is true. BLM made a practice of stating “black lives matter”. Other parties tried to negate that message by countering with “all lives matter”. Of course BLM has to respond by highlighting the contrast. ‘All lives matter’ does not negate the message. The message invites people who are opposed to say ‘white lives matter’ or ‘blue lives matter’. No one should get a negative response to ‘all lives matter’. If their messaging was clear this wouldn’t be happening, they would put their opponents in the position of saying that ‘Black lives don’t matter’. ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-lives-matter-a-flawed-phrase/759450/65 "2016-07-10T00:58:26Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I don’t think this is true. BLM made a practice of stating “black lives matter”. Other parties tried to negate that message by countering with “all lives matter”. Of course BLM has to respond by highlighting the contrast. I don’t think it’s true either. I’ve seen this sign and statements like it used by people who are part of BLM. [https://www.pinterest.com/pin/432697476674649950/](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/432697476674649950/) People wouldn’t get a negative response to ALM if the slogan were sincerely meant. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-lives-matter-a-flawed-phrase/759450/66 "2016-07-10T00:59:30Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > Whoops. Copy paste error. [Here’s the link.](http://imgur.com/a/YkDVQ) Was gonna post that. Great combination of whiny, petty concern trolling and cogent, detailed, thorough and pitiless take-down. [QUOTE=Tripolar] ‘All lives matter’ does not negate the message. [/QUOTE] You do not grok the message. [QUOTE=Magiver] and what of the lives of policeman? [/QUOTE] They’re getting [safer and safer](http://i.imgur.com/85blPqT.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-lives-matter-a-flawed-phrase/759450/67 "2016-07-10T01:06:13Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > You do not grok the message. The problem is other people who don’t grok the message because it’s poorly stated. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-lives-matter-a-flawed-phrase/759450/68 "2016-07-10T01:07:31Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > ‘All lives matter’ does not negate the message. The message invites people who are opposed to say ‘white lives matter’ or ‘blue lives matter’. No one should get a negative response to ‘all lives matter’. If their messaging was clear this wouldn’t be happening, they would put their opponents in the position of saying that ‘Black lives don’t matter’. Imagine for a moment you are at a breast cancer awareness event. And in the back of the crowd, you see some asshole holding up a sign that says: “ALL CANCER MATTERS!!” Do you get the sense that a person like this may be a little off putting to say the least? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-lives-matter-a-flawed-phrase/759450/69 "2016-07-10T01:10:20Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > ‘All lives matter’ does not negate the message. Presumably we all entered into this social contract with the idea that ‘all lives matter’. That’s a given, from the very beginning. But it seems we’ve gone astray and we have to be reminded that ‘all lives’ includes black lives. There’s no all-inclusive way to express that we’ve forgotten that black lives also matter. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-lives-matter-a-flawed-phrase/759450/70 "2016-07-10T01:10:52Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > In the Grand Scheme, No Lives Matter. Ia ! Ia ! Nyarlathotep ! ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-lives-matter-a-flawed-phrase/759450/71 "2016-07-10T01:12:40Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The problem is other people who don’t grok the message because it’s poorly stated. I dunno, I never had a problem grokking it the first time it came up. After so many months of people explaining it again and again, you have no excuse to still. Not. Get it. Yet still insist you’re the one who reads it right. ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-lives-matter-a-flawed-phrase/759450/72 "2016-07-10T01:19:45Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Seriously? > > Anyone with two brain cells to rub together would understand that that is not what is being said. You should the people on a deaf forum I use some members said this is racist , I think they have only one brain cell. I wasn’t able to answer back b/c the thread was locked . My daughter is Black and I totally get what this means. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-lives-matter-a-flawed-phrase/759450/73 "2016-07-10T01:22:24Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Presumably we all entered into this social contract with the idea that ‘all lives matter’. That’s a given, from the very beginning. But it seems we’ve gone astray and we have to be reminded that ‘all lives’ includes black lives. There’s no all-inclusive way to express that we’ve forgotten that black lives also matter. Black Lives Matter Too. It’s that simple. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-lives-matter-a-flawed-phrase/759450/74 "2016-07-10T01:35:07Z")
Can’t get on board. Sorry. In principle, all lives matter. In practice, black lives are treated as disposable. ‘Black lives matter too’ is a phrase that places the worth of a black life in relation to a non-black life. The dignity and worth of a black life should stand on its own, without reference to or comparison with whatever we call a white life. Black lives matter. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-lives-matter-a-flawed-phrase/759450/75 "2016-07-10T01:46:18Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The problem is other people who don’t grok the message because it’s poorly stated. Nobody misunderstands what Black Lives Matter means. Some people like to \*pretend \*that they don’t, because it’s easier than addressing the issues raised by BLM. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-lives-matter-a-flawed-phrase/759450/76 "2016-07-10T02:29:48Z")
And an entire, important movement to highlight injustices is felled by a bunch of pedantic neckbeards. Why am I not surprised? [Hit submit too soon.] Oh, wait, it’s not. Because even the damned inbred racists know what it means. Surely the hippest and brightest do as well. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-lives-matter-a-flawed-phrase/759450/77 "2016-07-10T02:35:20Z")
I’m flabbergasted there’s people even willing to argue the toss. Is anyone really disagree with the statement “black lives matter”? I kind’ve think those who object would rather it was “black lives matter, but not as much as blue/white lives” ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-lives-matter-a-flawed-phrase/759450/78 "2016-07-10T02:49:56Z")
One of the interesting things to me about the BLM is that, in terms of police shootings, it’s only black lives that matter to the nation. Off the top of my head I can think of six controversial police killings where the dead person was black that made national news. I can’t think of a single case where the dead person was any other race besides black that made national news. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-lives-matter-a-flawed-phrase/759450/79 "2016-07-10T02:59:53Z")
> [@treis](#): > > One of the interesting things to me about the BLM is that, in terms of police shootings, it’s only black lives that matter to the nation. Off the top of my head I can think of six controversial police killings where the dead person was black that made national news. I can’t think of a single case where the dead person was any other race besides black that made national news. Dylan Noble and Zachary Hammond, off the top of my head. Also Hannah Cohen and Bryce Masters, for recent, reasonably high profile cases of white kids being brutalized (but not killed) by police officers. (Well, TSA in the case of Cohen.) Of course, one of the major points raised by BLM is that police violence _disproportionately_ targets black people. So the fact you couldn’t think of any high profile cases of police brutality against white people would seem to support that particular argument. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2016, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-lives-matter-a-flawed-phrase/759450/80 "2016-07-10T04:23:47Z")
A friend of mine put it very well today: > [@](#): > > Suppose you asked me whether Bob was smart and I replied: “He’s an excellent golfer”. Even if it were true that Bob is an excellent golfer, you’d recognize that, in the context of our conversation, I was conveying a bit of extra information about Bob-- that he’s a dim bulb. Every competent language user easily grasps this sort of thing. Now, an easy question followed by a hard one: (1) What additional information does the undeniably true sentence “all lives matter” convey when it is offered (nearly exclusively) as a _response_ to “black lives matter”? (2) What should we think of someone who, despite having a firm grasp of conversational implicature in most contexts, claims to be unable to grasp it in this one? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-lives-matter-a-flawed-phrase/759450.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-lives-matter-a-flawed-phrase/759450.md?page=5)