# Black Men drinking White Wine **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** wine\ **Created:** [July 27, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187 "2010-07-27T14:54:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/101 "2010-07-28T21:36:35Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > > [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > > > I’m smart enough to notice when someone revealed a bit too much about their own biases and are now attempting the ol’ rope-a-dope. Nice try.😃 > > I can’t tell if you’re being serious or not at this point. If you are, please let me know, so that I may dismiss everything you post in the future. If not, that would explain why it appears you have so thoroughly misread my posts in this thread, so 😃 back at ya. > > > [@pulykamell](#): > > > > That’s interesting. I’d definitely notice a woman ordering a scotch at a bar. > > Maybe I don’t notice because the chicks I know drink whiskey. Yes, I’m familiar with the concept of girl drinks, but to be honest, I don’t see many people in general ordering Scotch at the bars. Most people I see are just drinking beer, or some very basic cocktail. In the event that a girl drink is ordered, I’d put my money on the person ordering it being a chick, but wouldn’t be surprised if it were a man at all. With the pussification of martinis (lemon martinis, chocotinis, whatever the fuck) a lot of people are drinking like chicks now. > > And **Rand Rover** , if you seriously think white wine is restricted to middle aged white ladies, you need to get out more. Moreover, if you think it is so restricted to middle aged white ladies that if you see other people doing it, it strikes you as out of place, and you wonder what music video or film they picked it up from, you’re beyond needing to get out more, and are all out insane. This is white wine, people, not Wheat Thins and Fresca. I agree with at least part of the last paragraph. I really prefer red wine, but if I don’t feel like dealing with the headache it usually gives me (allergy to sulfides?), I’ll order white. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/102 "2010-07-28T21:41:20Z")
I guess I personally just never saw wine as all that weird for men to be drinking. I mean, sure, on Frasier, there were all those stuffy intellectual and their wine club jokes. But I figured that was kind of a joke, too. Like Middle America really thinks that drinking wine actually means something? Plus whenever people have a party or housewarming, people generally bring wine. I never thought of it as all that out there for anyone to be drinking. To me, the OP really was as odd as if the person were posting about people in bars drinking beer. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/103 "2010-07-28T22:11:04Z")
Even if we were to buy that white wine is a sissy drink, the silliness of the OP boils down to a few simple points for me. Maybe this is just me glossing over details again, but: 1. Racial/Cultural norms do exist, but 2. Wine is so universal across races that 3. Remarking “Holy shit, I see black guys drinking wine. Did they get this from sort hip hop artist or something?” smacks of cluelessness. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/104 "2010-07-28T22:26:42Z")
No idea where this demographic info comes from, but for those interested: > [@](#): > > \*African American and Hispanic populations are 96 more likely to prefer a white wine or champagne over a red wine. > > \*Male Caucasian wine drinkers are more likely to prefer red wines over white wines. > > \*Female Caucasian wine drinkers are more likely to prefer white wines and champagne. And [while we’re at it.](http://articles.sfgate.com/2003-01-02/wine/17471844_1_wine-country-dessert-wines-wine-drinking) > [@](#): > > Fewer black Americans than any other major U.S. ethnic group consume table wine. Just 25.8 percent drink domestic table wine, compared to 34.3 percent of whites, 32.2 percent of Hispanics and 28.8 percent of Asians, according to Adams Wine Handbook 2002. So, if you trust those numbers, it doesn’t seem like anything odd or out-of-the-ordinary is going on here. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/105 "2010-07-28T22:51:55Z")
I would think it odd if a group of men came into my local bar and all of them ordered wine (white or otherwise). Not so odd if women ordered wine. I don’t think I’ve ever seen three men together, black or white, order wine in a bar. Maybe I’m hanging around the wrong kind of bar, but guys in my local bar order beer or whiskey. That’s pretty much it. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/106 "2010-07-28T22:54:55Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Fewer black Americans than any other major U.S. ethnic group consume table wine. Just 25.8 percent drink domestic table wine, compared to 34.3 percent of whites, 32.2 percent of Hispanics and 28.8 percent of Asians, according to Adams Wine Handbook 2002. > > So, if you trust those numbers, it doesn’t seem like anything odd or out-of-the-ordinary is going on here. I was parsing your quote, and had to pause when it said “34.3 percent of whites…” I assumed the next part would be “X% of reds.” I think this is conspiring to lead me to drinking, it’s what I have on my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/107 "2010-07-28T22:58:00Z")
> [@Disheavel](#): > > …everyone likes white wines more in the summer. Just as everyone likes sodomy more in the morning. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2010, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/108 "2010-07-28T23:05:03Z")
This is my favorite thread EVER. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/109 "2010-07-29T00:28:42Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Even if we were to buy that white wine is a sissy drink, the silliness of the OP boils down to a few simple points for me. Maybe this is just me glossing over details again, but: > > 1. Racial/Cultural norms do exist, but > 2. Wine is so universal across races that > 3. Remarking “Holy shit, I see black guys drinking wine. Did they get this from sort hip hop artist or something?” smacks of cluelessness. 1. Agreed 2. Not true at all, in the opinion of the actuals bartenders that have responded in this thread, and certainly not at bars in NYC (until maybe now). I guarantee you that. 3. I suspect this comment will shut this thread down, so I may as well respond: It may _seem_ clueless to you. But that says more about you than me. ---
**Author:** ![Sri\_Theo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Sri\_Theo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sri_Theo)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/110 "2010-07-29T00:45:14Z")
I’ll back up the OP here, I work in my student union bar/club and it’s drinking white/Rosé wine in clubs has definitely become a thing amongst black guys. We even joke about it as a stereotype. But it’s not solely black guys anymore really, wine seems to have developed into an acceptable any gender club drink these days. And trust me its not the good stuff. We joke that it’s because they (students) can’t afford the Cristal 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Cation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cation)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/111 "2010-07-29T00:58:11Z")
I think I may have found the elusive hip hop source that has been sending our nation’s black men to the white wine fountain. [Exhibit A](http://video.adultswim.com/tim-and-eric-awesome-show-great-job/beaver-boys-1.html) [Exhibit B](http://video.adultswim.com/tim-and-eric-awesome-show-great-job/beaver-boys-in-nightzout.html) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Righteous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Dr.Righteous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Righteous)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/112 "2010-07-29T00:58:36Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > No idea where this demographic info comes from, but for those interested: > > > [@](#): > > > > \*African American and Hispanic populations are 96 more likely to prefer a white wine or champagne over a red wine. > > > > \*Male Caucasian wine drinkers are more likely to prefer red wines over white wines. > > > > \*Female Caucasian wine drinkers are more likely to prefer white wines and champagne. > > And [while we’re at it.](http://articles.sfgate.com/2003-01-02/wine/17471844_1_wine-country-dessert-wines-wine-drinking) > > > [@](#): > > > > Fewer black Americans than any other major U.S. ethnic group consume table wine. Just 25.8 percent drink domestic table wine, compared to 34.3 percent of whites, 32.2 percent of Hispanics and 28.8 percent of Asians, according to Adams Wine Handbook 2002. > > So, if you trust those numbers, it doesn’t seem like anything odd or out-of-the-ordinary is going on here. I worked in a wine and liquor store for a year, and I had to pop in and say that all of these statistic seem correct according to my personal experiences. I rarely sold any wine to black males, and if I did it was usually something sweet that was, in their own words, “for the ladies”. They almost uniformly drank Hennessey, if anyone cares. I now work in wine marketing and I find that the drink a person consumes (or chooses not to) is definitely influenced by their companions. I helped one lady find a wine to drink that was not a white zinfandel because she said her friends were teasing her for drinking it - not because she was tired of it and wanted to explore other things. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/113 "2010-07-29T02:16:49Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > 1. I suspect this comment will shut this thread down, so I may as well respond: It may _seem_ clueless to you. But that says more about you than me. Yes. Yes, it does say something about me, specifically that I know actual black people, and when they drink wine, I don’t go, “What movie did they see that in?” Look, look, I’ll be nice for a change, and will explain my point of view sans snark. My earlier snippiness was due to you not only entirely misreading my point, but also due to you accusing me of changing my position when I tried to explain that you’d misunderstood my point. In the middle responses to the OP full of mocking and jest, I made an effort to state that you had a point about societal racial norms, but that was not why everyone was making fun of you. Unfortunately, you were so already on the defensive, that all potential for honest and polite discourse was shot dead. Now then. I’m not sure how to make my point concisely, because when I tried, it didn’t work. So here’s a tl;dr version followed by the whole thing: Tl;dr: I’m not denying racial norms, I’m not even denying that these norms extend into drink choice. There are also age and gender and nationality drink norms, etc. What I am denying is that it’s anything short of silly to claim that seeing black men drinking white men surely **must** mean there was a some kind of black person popular culture thing we’re missing, because there black guys drinking white wine is so out of the ordinary, that it doesn’t fit in with one’s view of the rest of the world. Long version: Actually, this black woman is too tired and full of Beefeater to write the long version. Short version of the long version:Yes, I’ve noticed drinking conventions based on race/age/gender/class/bla-bla-bla-demographics, but would like to point out that after many years of being a functional alcoholic, my ideas about who drinks what have become significantly narrowed. I can be detailed in the morning if anyone wants me to be. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/114 "2010-07-29T02:45:03Z")
OK, so we have the black female alcoholic view of the issue. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/115 "2010-07-29T02:50:56Z")
Well we’ve already have the sheltered, clueless suburban white guy angle, Young Randy, so I figured I’d throw in the POV of someone who exists outside left stuffy white guy land. Although, Young Rand, feel free to share your expertise. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/116 "2010-07-29T02:53:49Z")
She don’t mean it mods, that’s just the gin talkin’. Don’t hurt her. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/117 "2010-07-29T03:01:25Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Yes. Yes, it does say something about me, specifically that I know actual black people, and when they drink wine, I don’t go, “What movie did they see that in?” Yeah. I’m not saying the OP was specifically racist. Just that the, “Black people. Why do they do the things they do?” threads can get old and really painful. You _never_ see a why do, “White men/women” do x? You’ll see, “Why do men do x?” or “Why do women do x?” but I guess white people are pretty default. Drinking wine is so commonplace that asking about it just seems bizarre. If lots of people of any race were asking for a single plum in cologne served in a man’s hat…okay, I’d wonder if that had pop cultural significance. But for wine? To me it’s only slightly less bizarre than, “I just saw a bunch of black people drinking bottled water. What’s up with that?” ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/118 "2010-07-29T03:02:52Z")
Well I certainly didn’t mean those typing errors. On that note, night cap then bed time. But no white wine, because that would make me a total honky. Perhaps some juice in my gin. And by juice, I mean light rocks and a squeeze of lime. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/119 "2010-07-29T03:04:21Z")
One more thing - **FS** , I know, right? “I went to Starbucks, and saw all these Indian guys there. I mean… what’s up with that?!” ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/120 "2010-07-29T03:11:15Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > > [@MeanOldLady](#): > > > > Yes. Yes, it does say something about me, specifically that I know actual black people, and when they drink wine, I don’t go, “What movie did they see that in?” > > Yeah. I’m not saying the OP was specifically racist. Just that the, “Black people. Why do they do the things they do?” threads can get old and really painful. You _never_ see a why do, “White men/women” do x? You’ll see, “Why do men do x?” or “Why do women do x?” but I guess white people are pretty default. > > Drinking wine is so commonplace that asking about it just seems bizarre. If lots of people of any race were asking for a single plum in cologne served in a man’s hat…okay, I’d wonder if that had pop cultural significance. But for wine? To me it’s only slightly less bizarre than, “I just saw a bunch of black people drinking bottled water. What’s up with that?” You do realize that black people are a minority in the US, right? And that, in addition to being part of the broader US culture, they have their own culture in many senses that is distinct from the broader US culture, yes? And that it is sometimes difficult for persons of one culture to understand things done by another culture, right? And that one may attempt to gain some knowledge of another culture by asking questions on a message board, comprende? Your attitude that asking questions about things black people do is somehow “not exactly racist” (by which you seem to mean essentially “racist”) is bizarre to me. On the specific subject of white wine, maybe you would understand the OP’s point of view better if you didn’t drink white wine. I don’t drink white wine. The only person I know that routinely drinks white wine is my mother-in-law. When me and my friends drink wine, it’s red. Your last paragraph says “wine,” but we are talking about “white wine.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187.md?page=7)