# Black Men drinking White Wine **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** wine\ **Created:** [July 27, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187 "2010-07-27T14:54:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/121 "2010-07-29T03:12:44Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > One more thing - **FS** , I know, right? “I went to Starbucks, and saw all these Indian guys there. I mean… what’s up with that?!” Can you link to a thread with a question similar to that? I bet a dollar you can’t. What would be similar to this thread is something like “I went to Starbucks and saw a bunch of Indian guys drinking strawberry frappacinos–what’s up with that?” ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/122 "2010-07-29T03:19:50Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You do realize that black people are a minority in the US, right? And that, in addition to being part of the broader US culture, they have their own culture in many senses that is distinct from the broader US culture, yes? And that it is sometimes difficult for persons of one culture to understand things done by another culture, right? And that one may attempt to gain some knowledge of another culture by asking questions on a message board, comprende? Your attitude that asking questions about things black people do is somehow “not exactly racist” (by which you seem to mean essentially “racist”) is bizarre to me. But their culture doesn’t mean they don’t drink most of the same drinks as most white people. **MeanOldLady** who is black actually made that point. I don’t mean that asking questions about what black people do is racist. I think that often it can be framed as a bit condescendingly. Especially when it’s about something mundane. > [@](#): > > On the specific subject of white wine, maybe you would understand the OP’s point of view better if you didn’t drink white wine. I don’t drink white wine. The only person I know that routinely drinks white wine is my mother-in-law. When me and my friends drink wine, it’s red. Your last paragraph says “wine,” but we are talking about “white wine.” But there are lots of things that I don’t do that I don’t consider weird. If I saw lots of people of one race drinking red wine, I wouldn’t find that bizarre, even though I never drink…red wine. I don’t drink Scotch, Pepsi, martinis, or milk, but I wouldn’t think it was odd if I noticed a lot of white people drinking those things. (Well. Maybe milk. Milk frightens me.) If it were a genuinely bizarre drink, like a flaming beverage, OK, I could see commenting. But even if you don’t drink wine, I think most people would consider it a fairly well known beverage. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/123 "2010-07-29T03:22:32Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > > You do realize that black people are a minority in the US, right? And that, in addition to being part of the broader US culture, they have their own culture in many senses that is distinct from the broader US culture, yes? And that it is sometimes difficult for persons of one culture to understand things done by another culture, right? And that one may attempt to gain some knowledge of another culture by asking questions on a message board, comprende? Your attitude that asking questions about things black people do is somehow “not exactly racist” (by which you seem to mean essentially “racist”) is bizarre to me. > > But their culture doesn’t mean they don’t drink most of the same drinks as most white people. **MeanOldLady** who is black actually made that point. > > I don’t mean that asking questions about what black people do is racist. I think that often it can be framed as a bit condescendingly. Especially when it’s about something mundane. > > > [@](#): > > > > On the specific subject of white wine, maybe you would understand the OP’s point of view better if you didn’t drink white wine. I don’t drink white wine. The only person I know that routinely drinks white wine is my mother-in-law. When me and my friends drink wine, it’s red. Your last paragraph says “wine,” but we are talking about “white wine.” > > But there are lots of things that I don’t do that I don’t consider weird. If I saw lots of people of one race drinking red wine, I wouldn’t find that bizarre, even though I never drink…red wine. I don’t drink Scotch, Pepsi, martinis, or milk, but I wouldn’t think it was odd if I noticed a lot of white people drinking those things. (Well. Maybe milk. Milk frightens me.) > > If it were a genuinely bizarre drink, like a flaming beverage, OK, I could see commenting. But even if you don’t drink wine, I think most people would consider it a fairly well known beverage. Maybe what you aren’t getting (probably because I haven’t explained it very well) is that I think white wine is a girly drink, just like a cosmopolitan or anything with an umbrella in it (which men can drink only on a beach or a boat). If I kept seeking black guys drinking cosmopolitans, I’d wander what was going on. Same with white wine. ---
**Author:** ![optimisticcynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4da419/32.png) [@optimisticcynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/optimisticcynic)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/124 "2010-07-29T04:47:36Z")
Might I say BS on the whole discussion. There are many white wines, chardonnay excluded, a man would drink in the hot weather. Examples are Sauvignon Blanc, Pinot Grisio, Alberado, and my favorite, Vino Verde (although I hate to let that one be known). Additionally, Rose’s are good as well. For the old folks, revisit Mateus Rose for a pleasent delight. Not what you had in your teen years. (Wine snob, white guy and California resident so I’ve had my share of wine.) And BTW, many of the wines I have had in eastern Europe, were white, seemingly the most available, cheap, and delightful. Great, any time of the year. So, with a heat wave in the eastern US, who wouldn’t drink a refreshing white wine? And, yes, I will go into a bar and order a white wine along with my wife and friends. I happen to know my wines and know what I like. Wine snobbery is not a bad thing. And white Zin, beginners’ wine. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/125 "2010-07-29T05:01:15Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > > [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > > > Saw my Chinese neighbor was drinking mead out of a flagon the other day. > > Was his hair perfect? Well, yeah, cause: Ninja hair be played/ in a long red braid/ Me’n my mates We be [Asian VIKINGS!](http://www.asianvikingsmadeyoulook.com/)! ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/126 "2010-07-29T06:33:02Z")
> [@optimisticcynic](#): > > And BTW, many of the wines I have had in eastern Europe, were white That’s where I developed my appreciation for white wine, especially the more offbeat varieties like Irsai Oliver, Furmint/Mosler, dry muscats, gewurtstraminer, cserszegi fuszeres (a cross between Irsai Oliver and gewurtstraminer), Gruner Veltliner, etc. I never was a big fan of most Central/Eastern European reds. Anyhow, the other thing that was interesting is that wine spritzers (wine cut with soda water) were a common bar drink, and the manly-man workmen who showed up at the bar in the morning before their shift in their green overalls would not think twice of drinking a wine spritzer. But it’s cultural. In America, white wine does have effete connotations in some (many?) circles. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/127 "2010-07-29T13:37:57Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You do realize that black people are a minority in the US, right? And that, in addition to being part of the broader US culture, they have their own culture in many senses that is distinct from the broader US culture, yes? Missed the point, my dear. I generally agree with FS’s response, and would like to add that I find it amusing that apparently black people are exoticized in your world, that when you see black people just living life, you think every action they’re committing is part of some secret black sub-culture. Sometimes black guys doing stuff is just guys (who happen to be black) doing stuff. > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > What would be similar to this thread is something like “I went to Starbucks and saw a bunch of Indian guys drinking strawberry frappacinos–what’s up with that?” Yes, quite silly. I see Indian people all the time, and I don’t log what they’re doing and try to figure out what part of Indian culture that is. If I saw a bunch of Indian guys drinking pink drinks, I’d think, “Heh, those guys are drinking girly drinks.” I would notice their physical appearance, which includes the color of their skin as much as it does the color of their shirts, but I wouldn’t assume the reason they like girly drinks has anything to do with being Indian. Similarly, I wouldn’t see white guys drinking strawberry frappawhatever and go “What’s up with white guys and chick drinks?” The only way I would notice (and this is if they’re Indian or white guys) is if the behavior seemed consistent and to be exclusive to a certain group. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/128 "2010-07-29T14:48:37Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > > You do realize that black people are a minority in the US, right? And that, in addition to being part of the broader US culture, they have their own culture in many senses that is distinct from the broader US culture, yes? > > Missed the point, my dear. I generally agree with FS’s response, and would like to add that I find it amusing that apparently black people are exoticized in your world, that when you see black people just living life, you think every action they’re committing is part of some secret black sub-culture. Sometimes black guys doing stuff is just guys (who happen to be black) doing stuff. > > > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > > What would be similar to this thread is something like “I went to Starbucks and saw a bunch of Indian guys drinking strawberry frappacinos–what’s up with that?” > > Yes, quite silly. I see Indian people all the time, and I don’t log what they’re doing and try to figure out what part of Indian culture that is. If I saw a bunch of Indian guys drinking pink drinks, I’d think, “Heh, those guys are drinking girly drinks.” I would notice their physical appearance, which includes the color of their skin as much as it does the color of their shirts, but I wouldn’t assume the reason they like girly drinks has anything to do with being Indian. Similarly, I wouldn’t see white guys drinking strawberry frappawhatever and go “What’s up with white guys and chick drinks?” > > The only way I would notice (and this is if they’re Indian or white guys) is if the behavior seemed consistent and to be exclusive to a certain group. In the OP, I also referred to the impact that _Sideways_ had on white men. Somehow you and FS ignored that part. I’ve maintained the high road with you in this thread to avoid a pissing contest, regardless of your obvious ignorance regarding the subject matter and your intentional disregard of actual posts that support me. Why do you believe that your opinion should carry more weight than everyone else’s? Your posts are filled with logical inconsistencies and are supported by pathetically intellectually dishonest examples, as has already been pointed out to you. Go back and read your posts _before_ hitting the gin. And if you want to start a pissing contest, start it in the Pit. Just remember, beer drinkers piss farther than gin drinkers. I apologize to any gin drinkers that may have taken offense to that last comment. Listen lady, just because you’re black doesn’t mean you’re some sort of authority on young, male, urban black drinking preferences and the sources of those preferences. In fact, I’d be willing to bet that I’m far greater an authority than you, since I actually have dozens of friends and acquaintances of all races and cultures and lived my whole life in a culturally diverse environment. In modern America, we embrace diversity, not ignore it (which seems to be your position here). I have no idea where you live, but your posts suggest somewhere close to Mayberry (at least figuratively?). Maybe you should take a trip to NY to see what actual people here drink, just to test your ridiculous notion that any group of young males drinking white wine is equivalent to them drinking coffee at Starbucks. As has been demonstrated over and over again by other posters here, young black dudes drinking white wine is an anomaly. The black friends that I’ve asked since my initial observation completely agree. They would _never_ order white wine in a bar. To quote one of them: “Only if there’s absolutely nothing else available.” In fact, when I have a party, I will always pick up a couple of bottles of white and red wine for the ladies. And invariably, it’s only the women that drink the white wine. And finally, just to make sure that I’ve given your opinion the respect that really isn’t deserved, I asked our diversity director the same question. We work together on our company’s diversity council, and I am on the council’s steering committee alongside her. Her response was: “I’ve never seen this and would definitely have noticed.” Oh, and she’s black. So just STFU. ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/129 "2010-07-29T14:53:42Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > [@MeanOldLady](#): > > > > One more thing - **FS** , I know, right? “I went to Starbucks, and saw all these Indian guys there. I mean… what’s up with that?!” > > Can you link to a thread with a question similar to that? I bet a dollar you can’t. How about “I went to [Red Lobster](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=140481) and saw a bunch of blacks there. What’s up with that?” I think the weirdest thing about the "why are the \_\_\_ people doing X, threads are that if some \_\_\_\_s weigh in and say they do X solely because they enjoy it, or that they personally don’t do X, it’s seen as a bad thing, as if there \*has \*to be some sort of deeper meaning behind the behavior that everyone is keeping secret for PC reasons. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/130 "2010-07-29T14:58:28Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > In the OP, I also referred to the impact that _Sideways_ had on white men. Somehow you and FS ignored that part. Great. That was the case with Sideways, that isn’t the case here. There is no movie that popularized white wine with black people. Deal with it. > [@](#): > > Listen lady, just because you’re black doesn’t mean you’re some sort of authority on young, male, urban black drinking preferences and the sources of those preferences. Whaaat? _Puts away Black Expertise Sash_ > [@](#): > > I have no idea where you live, but your posts suggest somewhere close to Mayberry (at least figuratively?). Maybe you should take a trip to NY to see what actual people here drink, just to test your ridiculous notion that any group of young males drinking white wine is equivalent to them drinking coffee at Starbucks. Born and raised in Los Angeles. Try again. > [@](#): > > And finally, just to make sure that I’ve given your opinion the respect that really isn’t deserved, I asked our diversity director the same question. We work together on our company’s diversity council, and I am on the council’s steering committee alongside her. Her response was: “I’ve never seen this and would definitely have noticed.” Oh, and she’s black. So just STFU. Oh, well since the lady on your company’s Official Diversity Council has chimed in, we can just shut this thread down. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/131 "2010-07-29T16:53:34Z")
Wow. This is getting to be an intense discussion. What is it with all the anger when it comes to discussing race? Is it the heat? Has the OP just seen **Do the Right Thing**? ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/132 "2010-07-29T16:57:34Z")
**Mookie:** Pino, fuck you, fuck your fuckin’ pizza, and fuck Frank Sinatra. **Pino:** Yeah? Well fuck you, too, and fuck Michael Jackson. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/133 "2010-07-29T17:19:16Z")
The rage here is almost as amusing as the OP itself. Actually, no, I take that back. The rage is funnier. I’m undecided on whether or not to declare a race war now. On one hand, I’m outnumbered, on the other I belong to a particularly violent group. Decisions… ---
**Author:** ![tr0psn4j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@tr0psn4j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tr0psn4j)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/134 "2010-07-29T17:25:59Z")
> [@](#): > > The only way I would notice (and this is if they’re Indian or white guys) is if the behavior seemed consistent and to be exclusive to a certain group. So if not drinking white whine was consistent to a group, in this case black men, would you then be able to notice it when that group started drinking it? ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/135 "2010-07-29T17:56:03Z")
It would have to be more than simply not doing something being consistent to a group. _Avoiding_ Thing X would have to be something most of Group X does. Engaging in TX would have to be very inconsistent with typical GX behavior for me to notice. Also, TX would have to be something that isn’t avoided as a whole by other groups. So for example, black Republicans always stand out in my mind when I meet them. The nation as a whole is fairly split between Dem and Rep, but black people heavily skew Democrat, so when a particular black person does not, I notice. Yes, black Republicans exist, but Michael Steele is an anomaly. When I meet white Republicans, I don’t think “Hey, a white Republican!” I think, “A Republican.” A white Repub doesn’t stand out in my mind the way a black one does. Or like my earlier example of young black guys in baggy jeans and the whole nine going to a honky tonk bar. That’d just be odd, as it very inconsistent with the behavior as I generally observe it. Now if I meet a black guy in a white shirt, I think nothing of it. Everyone wears white shirts. If I see a black guy juggling, I’ll notice because most people don’t juggle. I would not think, “Hey, a black guy juggling!” I’d think, “Hey, someone’s juggling.” Because juggling (at least in my experiences) isn’t something particular to any race, the fact that he is black doesn’t strike me as relevant. The fact that he is juggling does. Make sense? ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/136 "2010-07-29T17:59:01Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > … seeing black men drinking white men… Jaysus, what kind of a bar is that? ---
**Author:** ![tr0psn4j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@tr0psn4j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tr0psn4j)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/137 "2010-07-29T18:28:29Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > > [@MeanOldLady](#): > > > > … seeing black men drinking white men… > > Jaysus, what kind of a bar is that? You think that’s bad? Here’s one from Rand Rover. > [@](#): > > If I kept seeking black guys drinking cosmopolitans… Typo, obviously, but it still made me laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/138 "2010-07-29T18:38:07Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > > [@Snickers](#): > > > > Was the bar all out of Hennessey? > > I’m sorry. I tried to stay out of it, but I just couldn’t. > > I was going to stay out too, even though this is good funny, but you’ve made me respond. True story: Wait, before the true story, there’s some necessary background information. Necessary background information: I’m black. Okay, onto the true story. I was drinking with two co-workers, one of whom is a friend, and the other is just some chick. So I was drinking a bourbon neat, and some chick said, “Is that Hennessey?” Ha! I [del]asked[/del] axed why she would think that and she kinda reddened and was all, “I just kind of assumed because…” then trailed off. It was hilarious. Oh man, white people sho is crazy. And also, we drive like this: Doop dee doo, doop dee doop dee doo. ---
**Author:** ![ministryman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@ministryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ministryman)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/139 "2010-07-29T18:56:27Z")
> [@descamisado](#): > > **Mookie:** Pino, fuck you, fuck your fuckin’ pizza, and fuck Frank Sinatra. > **Pino:** Yeah? Well fuck you, too, and fuck Michael Jackson. and BOTH of them are now dead…hmmmmmmmm ---
**Author:** ![Baracus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2bfe46/32.png) [@Baracus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baracus)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187/140 "2010-07-29T19:00:01Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Wow. This is getting to be an intense discussion. What is it with all the anger when it comes to discussing race? Is it the heat? Has the OP just seen **Do the Right Thing**? It was bad enough when the black man was stealing our white women, but now he is drinking our white wine, too! What’s next? Black men using White-Out?!? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-men-drinking-white-wine/548187.md?page=8)