# Black Myth Bustin'...OJ Simpson **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 15, 2009, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474 "2009-05-15T00:04:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/101 "2009-05-15T20:06:54Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > I dunno about that - his ability to make a living was taken by the civil verdict. Who wouldn’t end up desperate eventually in that situation? Remember he was a very bankable movie start at some point prior. Probably hasn’t been able to earn dollar one since then. It all has to run out eventually. > > And by the way, I am sure you know, and internalize “innocent until proven guilty” You might really mean “I think he did it”, not “He is guilty as hell”, right? Unless you DON"T believe in “innocent until proven guilty” I suppose. > > Doing it is one thing, but it takes a successful prosecution before you are guilty, and that can happen whether you did it or not. :rolleyes: Aren’t we condescending? “Innocent until proven guilty” is a legal concept. I’m perfectly free to think he was guilty as all get out. The only people I saw cheer were some guys in my class (we saw the verdict in school, actually), and most of them were white (and sports-fans). One was of Indian-descent > [@Mijin](#): > > Wait, wait, wait… > If OJ’s guilty, how come the gloves didn’t fit him? He was trying it on over a _rubber glove_, so naturally it wouldn’t fit.. The prosecution had ordered a new pair of identical gloves, but they hadn’t arrived yet, and Darden didn’t want to wait any longer. I remember a joke by Chris Rock that came out years before O.J.'s dumbass “Here’s How I Would Do It” book. He showed a pretend video that O.J. released called “Here’s How I would Do It”. How scary is that? As for his money running out? My heart bleeds for him. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/102 "2009-05-15T20:06:55Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > I was working on a framing crew when the verdict was read, about 3/4 black and 1/4 white. We stopped to listen to it, and when it was over, everyone went back to work without a word. Well, of course a _framing_ crew would not be pleased by the verdict. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/103 "2009-05-15T20:09:07Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Sorry to double post, but wanted to stress, I know folks celebrated. Shame on them. They knew he was guilty though. OK, now I have to bring back what I deleeted above. Regardless of crime committed or nto committed, one is not guilty until there is a verdict. Is it hard to imaging a group of law students celebrating the very visible evidnece to the entire world that our justice system does work, and that reasonable doubt and other principles are not just theories, but protect defendant’s rights to a fair adversarial trial? What can’t they celebrate that, since that is where there careers were headed, even if they believe Simpson committed the crime? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/104 "2009-05-15T20:09:31Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > He was trying it on over a _rubber glove_, so naturally it wouldn’t fit.. The prosecution had ordered a new pair of identical gloves, but they hadn’t arrived yet, and Darden didn’t want to wait any longer. I also remember people noting that he tried it on himself. That is, he could easily just say, “Look, I can’t get it on!” Might have been better to have had someone try to put it on for him. Though again, if it was blood saturated, that might not have done any good. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/105 "2009-05-15T20:15:13Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > OK, now I have to bring back what I deleeted above. > > Regardless of crime committed or nto committed, one is not guilty until there is a verdict. > > Is it hard to imaging a group of law students celebrating the very visible evidnece to the entire world that our justice system does work, and that reasonable doubt and other principles are not just theories, but protect defendant’s rights to a fair adversarial trial? > > What can’t they celebrate that, since that is where there careers were headed, even if they believe Simpson committed the crime? I hear you. I meant the groups of folks that I know were celebrating because they believed he got away with murder. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/106 "2009-05-15T20:16:36Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > :rolleyes: Aren’t we condescending? > > “Innocent until proven guilty” is a legal concept. I’m perfectly free to think he was guilty as all get out. Sure you are, but we are perfectly free to assume you really mean “I think he killed the victims”, which is fine, but if you really mean “I think the courts convicted him to make him guilty”, well, that is just weird. I will give you the benefit of the doubt, but I am not sure the general public really understands the difference until they find themselves or a loved one in court. > [@](#): > > He was trying it on over a _rubber glove_, so naturally it wouldn’t fit.. The prosecution had ordered a new pair of identical gloves, but they hadn’t arrived yet, and Darden didn’t want to wait any longer. Defense simply argues that if a guy can’t even put on his own glove, a man who made his fame as an athlete with fantastic body control, how can he perform the more complex acts he is accused of? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/107 "2009-05-15T20:17:55Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I wonder how many black (or non-black) people really think he is guilty but the white bitch got what she deserved and I can’t really say that. So they say he is innocent. > > For the moment OJ should consider himself lucky to only be in prison and not on death row. :: checks skin tone & penises to make sure I’m still black :: I think he was probably morally guilty but not proven so beyond a reasonable doubt. I find it hard to imagine that his wife could possibly have deserved what was done to her. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/108 "2009-05-15T20:18:57Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > I hear you. I meant the groups of folks that I know were celebrating because they believed he got away with murder. Then why point out they were at a traditionally black college at all, I wonder… ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/109 "2009-05-15T20:20:42Z")
OJ was long past the point of having fantastic body control. He was 48 at the time of the trial. He had been retired for 16 years and his last 2 years were average at best. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/110 "2009-05-15T20:21:43Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > :: checks skin tone & **penises** to make sure I’m still black :: :eek: > [@](#): > > I think he was probably morally guilty but not proven so beyond a reasonable doubt. I find it hard to imagine that his wife could possibly have deserved what was done to her. I think this is an entirely reasonable position, except I would extend it that I would say it is NOT possible that the wife or the waiter deserved what happened regardless of who did it. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/111 "2009-05-15T20:24:41Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > OJ was long past the point of having fantastic body control. He was 48 at the time of the trial. He had been retired for 16 years and his last 2 years were average at best. I am pretty sure he was capable of pullloing on gloves - if the prosecution opens the door, they had to be prepared for coutner arguments too. I remember as a kid, I read the aformementinoed Bugliosi’s book “Helter Skelter”. The one detail I recall to this day was that he said somewhere in there, to the effect that, “A good lawyer never asks a question he doesn’t already know the answer to”. Failing to follow that advice is what got the prosecution in trouble and kept them there, esp. but no only with the glove. Having someone else handle the glove would have made it worse. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/112 "2009-05-15T20:28:06Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > [QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] > > :: checks skin tone & penises to make sure I’m still black :: :eek: [/quote] Oh, piffle. Like I’m the only person on Earth with multiple extensible penises. It’s not like ALL of them fire plasma beams; just the little (14") one. And only the middle one is enchanted so that anyone it penetrates will be impregnated, included dudes. So quit looking shocked. 🆒 > [@](#): > > I think this is an entirely reasonable position, except I would extend it that I would say it is NOT possible that the wife or the waiter deserved what happened regardless of who did it. I was engaging in understatement, of course. I can imagine being angry enough to murder someone, even brutally; I can’t ever imagine being angry enough to hurt my wife in any way shape or form. And the waiter’s name was Ron Goldman, just as the ex-wife’s name was Nicole. I mention the ex-wife thing because that’s part of the reason the case always pissed me off. Even if Simpson were justified in taking vengeance for being cuckolded, which would not have been, he wasn’t being cuckolded.) ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/113 "2009-05-15T20:31:19Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > Then why point out they were at a traditionally black college at all, I wonder… ok. I admit I’m lost. Posting from phone, dope blocked at work; will join thread from home ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/114 "2009-05-15T20:32:08Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Even if Simpson were justified in taking vengeance for being cuckolded, which would not have been, he wasn’t being cuckolded.) Does being cuckolded require the use of all of ones penises or just some? What is that Rule about if you can say something, there is porn already on the net or will be in 24 hours, what is that called? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/115 "2009-05-15T20:34:57Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > ok. I admit I’m lost. Posting from phone, dope blocked at work; will join thread from home It wasn’t you, it was [Contrapuntal](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=517636&page=2). Sorry for the confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/116 "2009-05-15T20:37:05Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > “A good lawyer never asks a question he doesn’t already know the answer to.” Absolutely true, 100% of the time. As for this- > [@](#): > > _But is it possible that your husband’s opinion is biased by his profession and role, maybe he had some sort of cheering interest in seeing the prosecution win?_ No. Hubby has worked both sides of the legal fence, so to speak, and has no particular loyalty or bias to either side. Frankly, he was horrified by the lack of a smart, professional prosecution and said so early on. > [@](#): > > \*Even if he is right and it is not relief but surprise that they “got away with it”, your husband knows that is entirely the fault of the prosecution, because the burden of persuading the jury is 100% on them, doesn’t he? - Um, yeah, that’s pretty basic… :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > \*Did he also think the prosecutor’s reactions were those of whom had let a guilty man get away due to their own failings? - Actually, I think the comment he made at the time was that they were listening to the distant sucking sound of their careers draining away… 😃 They knew the case was slipping away long before that verdict came in, I imagine. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/117 "2009-05-15T20:43:22Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > A murderer walking free is cause for a party? Seems like strange logic. I think for a lot of black people (basing this off people I know, anyway), it was some sort of bizarre justice. The day when a black guy armed with enough money and fancy lawyerin’ can kill two white people and get away with it, is the day it feels like there may some hope for racial equality. Money is finally more important than skin color, which is the way we’ve been perpetuating injustices since the dawn of money. Now if we can only stop rich people from getting away with murder, we’d have some actual justice and equality in the world. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/118 "2009-05-15T20:50:59Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > Absolutely true, 100% of the time. > Actually, I think the comment he made at the time was that they were listening to the distant sucking sound of their careers draining away… 😃 They knew the case was slipping away long before that verdict came in, I imagine. I hope so - everyone else saw it on TV for months and months 🙂 I expect to see them on Celebrity Fit Club any time now. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/119 "2009-05-15T20:54:03Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > I think for a lot of black people (basing this off people I know, anyway), it was some sort of bizarre justice. > > The day when a black guy armed with enough money and fancy lawyerin’ can kill two white people and get away with it, is the day it feels like there may some hope for racial equality. Money is finally more important than skin color, which is the way we’ve been perpetuating injustices since the dawn of money. Now if we can only stop rich people from getting away with murder, we’d have some actual justice and equality in the world. While reading this, I am listening to “American Skin (41 Shots)” on the raido: “They can get you just for living in your American Skin (41 Shots)” Having come of age in a violent majority black city, I think you are onto a certain zeitgeist here. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/120 "2009-05-15T21:05:37Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > Having come of age in a violent majority black city, I think you are onto a certain zeitgeist here. It was a time when little brown faced boys and girls finally could look up to their mothers, truly believing every word, and say, “If I work hard enough, if I’m better than the rest, if I make enough money, when I grow up I can kill all the white people I want.” And it was beautiful. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474.md?page=7)