# Black Myth Bustin'...OJ Simpson **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 15, 2009, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474 "2009-05-15T00:04:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/121 "2009-05-15T21:09:28Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > It was a time when little brown faced boys and girls finally could look up to their mothers, truly believing every word, and say, “If I work hard enough, if I’m better than the rest, if I make enough money, when I grow up I can kill all the white people I want.” And it was beautiful. Then they grew up and found out all the white people were one step ahead and had long ago left town. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/122 "2009-05-15T21:17:43Z")
No one on this board has had access to all of the material that the jurors had access to and so none of you can really say you know he’s guilty, you may feel he’s guilty but you don’t know because you’re not armed with enough information to know. If you take a look at [http://www.innocenceproject.org](http://www.innocenceproject.org) you’ll see a list of about 100 people exhonerated for murder after spending significant numbers of years behind bars. These people didn’t have access to lawyers that could match the resources available to the state during their trials, some were tortured into confessing. OJ happened to be in a position to have resources that could match those of the state. Without those resources, he would have been convicted, which has nothing to do with guilt or innocence as the link above illustrates. **Nzinga, Seated** , you don’t know every black person and black people aren’t a monolithic group either so your “survey” doesn’t really carry much weight. 😃 Lastly, in this country there are two standards of justice which is why the poplulation of blacks and latinos in prison for drug offenses are disproportionate to their numbers in the general soceity soceity even when whites, blacks and latinos use drugs at the same rate. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/123 "2009-05-15T21:21:55Z")
EasyPhil, I AM all black people! ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/124 "2009-05-15T21:25:22Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > EasyPhil, I AM all black people! As I am. And yet I am not identical to the you. It’s a trinity thing; one substance, 75 jazillion persons. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/125 "2009-05-15T21:39:22Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > Really? A restaurant full of white people in Brookline, Massachusetts erupted in celebration at OJ being found not guilty? _Really?_ This is Brookline we are talking about, not some right wing haven like Berkeley. Osama bin Laden would get a parade in Brookline. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/126 "2009-05-15T21:39:51Z")
Its a trinity thing? Ha!!! I keep forgetting you are black. How DO you do that? I wear my blackness in front me like a huge neon sign! ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/127 "2009-05-15T22:14:04Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > :: checks skin tone & penises to make sure I’m still black :: Wait. There’s now a black President and a black\* Overlord. Oh, my. - I already knew you were black. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/128 "2009-05-15T23:08:58Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > This is Brookline we are talking about, not some right wing haven like Berkeley. Osama bin Laden would get a parade in Brookline. I can understand a white Brookline audience shrugging and saying, “Well, the prosecution didn’t prove its case.” But _celebrating_? I have a hard time buying that. What would they have been celebrating, exactly? I understand why a black audience would celebrate OJ beating the rap, but what rooting interest would a white Brookline audience have in that? Doesn’t ring true. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/129 "2009-05-15T23:17:10Z")
> [@5-4-Fighting](#): > > Wait. There’s now a black President and a black\* Overlord. > > Oh, my. > > - I already knew you were black. No, no, I gave up the overlording thing now. I just do garden-variety evil now–no more world conquering stuff. :: turns up the amps on the electric current running through Aquaman for no particular reason :: ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/130 "2009-05-15T23:23:20Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > Honestly? They were leather, soaked with a fair amount of blood, then stored for a long time. Wet leather tightens up considerably. Plus he was wearing latex gloves to try them on, which might have made even a well-fitting pair of leather gloves more difficult to put on. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > He was trying it on over a _rubber glove_, so naturally it wouldn’t fit.. The prosecution had ordered a new pair of identical gloves, but they hadn’t arrived yet, and Darden didn’t want to wait any longer. Either I’m King of the Whoosh, or my humour is far too tongue-in-cheek. I wasn’t seriously suggesting “the gloves don’t fit” constituted reasonable doubt. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/131 "2009-05-15T23:57:46Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > I can understand a white Brookline audience shrugging and saying, “Well, the prosecution didn’t prove its case.” But _celebrating_? I have a hard time buying that. What would they have been celebrating, exactly? I understand why a black audience would celebrate OJ beating the rap, but what rooting interest would a white Brookline audience have in that? Doesn’t ring true. Capital-J Justice living to see another day ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/132 "2009-05-16T00:06:35Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > No one on this board has had access to all of the material that the jurors had access to and so none of you can really say you know he’s guilty, you may feel he’s guilty but you don’t know because you’re not armed with enough information to know. Sadly, the trial was IIRC televised in it’s entirety, so yes, there are lots of people who know everything the jury knew. What I’ve always been curious about is the evidence that was excluded. We may not have actually seen him decapitate Nicole and kill Ron, but neither did anybody else. We’re going on available evidence. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/133 "2009-05-16T00:14:21Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > Sadly, the trial was IIRC televised in it’s entirety, so yes, there are lots of people who know everything the jury knew. What I’ve always been curious about is the evidence that was excluded. > > We may not have actually seen him decapitate Nicole and kill Ron, but neither did anybody else. We’re going on available evidence. Actually, by watching TV, you had access to far MORE than the jury did. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/134 "2009-05-16T00:14:51Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > No one on this board has had access to all of the material that the jurors had access to and so none of you can really say you know he’s guilty, you may feel he’s guilty but you don’t know because you’re not armed with enough information to know… In reality the public had a lot MORE information than the jury, which is one reason people were so stunned by the verdict. A thousand reporters had dug up stuff that never made it into the trial and reported on it. Even the “slow speed chase”, which for some reason the prosecution never mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/135 "2009-05-16T00:16:17Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > I don’t know that this is actually a myth; I just enjoy using the term "black myth bustin’. But this came up at work today (apparently we are stuck in the 90s), and I also had this debate with my neighbor, and I have heard this idea expressed in the media. > > The idea that black people think OJ is innocent. The thing is; no, we dont. I don’t know any black people that think that. Every black person I know thinks he is guilty. Now, a few blacks I know think that he is guilty and are pleased as punch that he got off. \ You need to get out and meet more black people. “_An NBC poll taken in 2004 reported that, although 77% of 1,186 people sampled thought Simpson was guilty, only 27% of blacks in the sample believed so, compared to 87% of whites. Whatever the exact nature of the “racial divide,” the Simpson case continues to be assessed through the lens of race._” > **[Murder trial of O. J. Simpson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O._J._Simpson_murder_case)** > > The People of the State of California v. Orenthal James Simpson was a criminal trial in Los Angeles County Superior Court, in which former NFL player and actor O. J. Simpson was tried and acquitted for the murders of his ex-wife Nicole Brown Simpson and her friend Ron Goldman, who were stabbed to death outside Brown's condominium in Los Angeles on June 12, 1994. The trial spanned eight months, from January 24 to October 3, 1995. > Though prosecutors argued that Simpson was implicated by a signi... The poll is here: [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5139346/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5139346/) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/136 "2009-05-16T00:16:45Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Either I’m King of the Whoosh, or my humour is far too tongue-in-cheek. > > I wasn’t seriously suggesting “the gloves don’t fit” constituted reasonable doubt. 😃 :smack: But there ARE a lot of morons out there who seriously believe that. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/137 "2009-05-16T00:18:36Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > Capital-J Justice living to see another day So you’re saying they thought he wasn’t guilty? Or are you saying they were cheering that a poorly-executed prosecution failed? That seems maybe a reason to decry the prosecution, but a reason to cheer? Still not buying it. What do you mean by “Justice?” Please elaborate. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/138 "2009-05-16T00:25:36Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > :smack: > > But there ARE a lot of morons out there who seriously believe that. Plenty of smart people too. If your case hinges on the bloody glove, and you didn’t think to offer evidence, in advance, that the glove would shrink as a result of the blood, and then you are tupid enough to let defendant try on the glove, I’d say anyone that does not find that reasonable doubt in itself is not paying attention, and it casts into doubt everything else that prosecution said before or after, because it was such a simple and profound fuckup entirely of their own making. Not that the case wasn’t lost long before that, but hell yeah, if I was on a jury, and they claim they have the clothes the killer wore, and they don’t even fit and it is not even close, then what is a juror to infer? ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/139 "2009-05-16T00:33:49Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > So you’re saying they thought he wasn’t guilty? By definition , he was not, and remains, “not guilty”. There is no debating that. You are asking “did they think he did it” maybe? that is a horse of a different color. > [@](#): > > Or are you saying they were cheering that a poorly-executed prosecution failed? No, I don’t think that was it at all. For all I or anyone knows, the prosecution actually did the best they could with a poor case. > [@](#): > > That seems maybe a reason to decry the prosecution, but a reason to cheer? dunno myself, it is not what I am saying so I dunno. > [@](#): > > What do you mean by “Justice?” Please elaborate. That concept they teach in Civics Class, Law School 101, and maybe Philosophy. Very Roughly, the idea that Society is Just in dealing with each other, that trials are fair, and that we strive to reach all that over and above convicting someone falsely. In the US, justice includes the idea that we would rather let 10 guilty men go free than convict one man wrongly, to paraphrase someone, I don’t recall who". A fair trial each time is more important than the result of any individual trial, for example You will need many books to find more on the concept of Justice, so that is all I will say about it here, and I won’t entertain discussion, as it is necessarily a fortune cookie introduction, if that. But I hope that is at least a start for you. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474/140 "2009-05-16T00:48:59Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > By definition , he was not, and remains, “not guilty”. There is no debating that. > > You are asking “did they think he did it” maybe? that is a horse of a different color. Don’t be cute. “Guilty” is not just a legal term. But I’ll put a finer point on it if you insist: Were they cheering because they thought he really didn’t kill Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman? (And is that clear enough for you?) > [@](#): > > That concept they teach in Civics Class, Law School 101, and maybe Philosophy. > > Very Roughly, the idea that Society is Just in dealing with each other, that trials are fair, and that we strive to reach all that over and above convicting someone falsely. In the US, justice includes the idea that we would rather let 10 guilty men go free than convict one man wrongly, to paraphrase someone, I don’t recall who". A fair trial each time is more important than the result of any individual trial, for example > > You will need many books to find more on the concept of Justice, so that is all I will say about it here, and I won’t entertain discussion, as it is necessarily a fortune cookie introduction, if that. But I hope that is at least a start for you. You’re being cute again. What, precisely, do you mean when you say they were cheering for “Justice?” In what way did Simpson’s acquittal serve Justice, in the eyes of a white Brookline audience? (Frankly, I think your story of cheering white Brookliners is a load, but I’m willing to be convinced if you can give me some rational reason they might have been cheering.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-myth-bustin-oj-simpson/496474.md?page=8)