# Black on Black crime far outnumbers White on Black crime, why no discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 28, 2017, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-on-black-crime-far-outnumbers-white-on-black-crime-why-no-discussion/797524 "2017-09-28T14:56:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-on-black-crime-far-outnumbers-white-on-black-crime-why-no-discussion/797524/21 "2017-09-28T17:37:20Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Are you saying that the vast majority of black-on-black murders occur because the murderer feels he cannot go to the cops to resolve the issue? If so, I’d like to see something to back that up. Yes. Most murders have to do with gang conflicts and drug deals, both of which activities are prohibited and thus unlikely to be resolved peacefully in a court of law. I would have thought this was uncontroversial. It’s why we have the 21st Amendment to the Constitution after all. The racism of police just aggravates the issue, driving home the point that black people in general will see no justice from the government. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-on-black-crime-far-outnumbers-white-on-black-crime-why-no-discussion/797524/22 "2017-09-28T18:48:14Z")
OP: All that trouble just to avoid saying “Black on white crime” which is the real concern? ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-on-black-crime-far-outnumbers-white-on-black-crime-why-no-discussion/797524/23 "2017-09-28T19:27:09Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I’d also hazard a guess that most people commit crimes closer to where they live and quite often the victims are acquainted with the perpetrators. White on white crime probably far outnumbers black on white crime. Yeah, aren’t most murder victims killed by people that they know? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-on-black-crime-far-outnumbers-white-on-black-crime-why-no-discussion/797524/24 "2017-09-28T19:37:10Z")
Here’s another thought: Suppose you have a dispute with your neighbor. And suppose that the local courthouse has a statue out front that’s literally dedicated to the joy of horsewhipping people who look like you. Are you going to be inclined to think your dispute will be resolved fairly in that courthouse? This is the culture that we’re dealing with, here. And it’s the same people who complain about how nobody is paying attention to the culture, who also insist on perpetuating it. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-on-black-crime-far-outnumbers-white-on-black-crime-why-no-discussion/797524/25 "2017-09-28T20:46:12Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Here’s another thought: Suppose you have a dispute with your neighbor. And suppose that the local courthouse has a statue out front that’s literally dedicated to the joy of horsewhipping people who look like you. Are you going to be inclined to think your dispute will be resolved fairly in that courthouse? This is the culture that we’re dealing with, here. And it’s the same people who complain about how nobody is paying attention to the culture, who also insist on perpetuating it. Good analogy! ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-on-black-crime-far-outnumbers-white-on-black-crime-why-no-discussion/797524/26 "2017-09-28T21:56:17Z")
This is a big topic of conversation in the African American community, at least to my understanding. Many African Americans are uncomfortable calling the police and this has been implicated as a cause of the high crime rates. What are you going to do, call the cops and snitch? They just going to beat you up, yo. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-on-black-crime-far-outnumbers-white-on-black-crime-why-no-discussion/797524/27 "2017-09-28T23:57:53Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Both can be true, depending on the correlation between poverty and murder amongst different ethnic groups - data I don’t have on hand. > > If we’re talking about what the government can do to reduce murder, fighting poverty can go on the list as well. Government started “fighting poverty” in earnest with the Great Society programs. How has that reduced murder? ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-on-black-crime-far-outnumbers-white-on-black-crime-why-no-discussion/797524/28 "2017-09-29T00:02:45Z")
> [@smsaks2000](#): > > [http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler#](http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler#) [Dailywire](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-daily-wire/), eh? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-on-black-crime-far-outnumbers-white-on-black-crime-why-no-discussion/797524/29 "2017-09-29T00:15:27Z")
High Black on Black crime can be attributed to the following factors: -Blacks have historically been disenfranchised by the state, and in many ways have been alienated from American society at-large. -When the government intervenes in poor urban Black communities, it has undermined the social structure, resulting in further alienation. -Drug prohibition directs the drug trade into corners of society where the disenfranchised and alienated dwell. Prohibition also supplies large amounts of cash to people of dubious morality. As an aside, drug prohibition has always been endorsed and advocated for by Black community and political leaders. -There are many guns in the United States, and drug dealers are willing to buy and use them. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-on-black-crime-far-outnumbers-white-on-black-crime-why-no-discussion/797524/30 "2017-09-29T00:43:31Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Here’s another thought: Suppose you have a dispute with your neighbor. And suppose that the local courthouse has a statue out front that’s literally dedicated to the joy of horsewhipping people who look like you. Are you going to be inclined to think your dispute will be resolved fairly in that courthouse? This is the culture that we’re dealing with, here. And it’s the same people who complain about how nobody is paying attention to the culture, who also insist on perpetuating it. So an Irish won’t have confidence in a British court if he sees a statue of Cromwell? :dubious: How many of us actually notice statues in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-on-black-crime-far-outnumbers-white-on-black-crime-why-no-discussion/797524/31 "2017-09-29T01:01:18Z")
High Black on Black crime can be attributed to the following factors: -Blacks have historically been disenfranchised by the state, and in many ways have been alienated from American society at-large. -When the government intervenes in poor urban Black communities, it has undermined the social structure, resulting in further alienation. -Drug prohibition directs the drug trade into corners of society where the disenfranchised and alienated dwell. Prohibition also supplies large amounts of cash to people of dubious morality. As an aside, drug prohibition has always been endorsed and advocated for by Black community and political leaders. -There are many guns in the United States, and drug dealers are willing to buy and use them. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-on-black-crime-far-outnumbers-white-on-black-crime-why-no-discussion/797524/32 "2017-09-29T01:11:01Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Yes. Most murders have to do with gang conflicts and drug deals, both of which activities are prohibited and thus unlikely to be resolved peacefully in a court of law. > > I would have thought this was uncontroversial. It’s why we have the 21st Amendment to the Constitution after all. > > The racism of police just aggravates the issue, driving home the point that black people in general will see no justice from the government. Apparently I did a shitty job of phrasing that question, because I thought we were all talking about legit actions that some folks were just reticent to report to the police. Criminal killings as part of criminal enterprises may or may not constitute “honor killings”, which I was originally objecting to, but I don’t see any reason to assume that all or even most are. So, no, I’m not surprised that criminals don’t go to the cops to help them solve their problems with other criminals. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-on-black-crime-far-outnumbers-white-on-black-crime-why-no-discussion/797524/33 "2017-09-29T01:11:07Z")
Black on black crime has been discussed for so long that Bill Cosby was speaking out against it back when he was still publicly seen as being against crime. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-on-black-crime-far-outnumbers-white-on-black-crime-why-no-discussion/797524/34 "2017-09-29T13:10:09Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Government started “fighting poverty” in earnest with the Great Society programs. How has that reduced murder? [Violent crime disproportionately affects poor people and poor communities.](https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=5137) Therefore, fewer poor people & fewer poor communities = less murder. There’s also a strong correlation between [income inequality and violent crime](https://financesonline.com/how-income-inequality-affects-crime-rates/). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-on-black-crime-far-outnumbers-white-on-black-crime-why-no-discussion/797524/35 "2017-09-29T13:13:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **madsircool** : > > How many of us actually notice statues in the first place? The descendants of the people who were horsewhipped, for starters. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-on-black-crime-far-outnumbers-white-on-black-crime-why-no-discussion/797524/36 "2017-09-29T13:23:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The descendants of the people who were horsewhipped, for starters. Particularly when the descendants of the people doing the horsewhipping continue to openly profess support for the practice. ---
**Author:** ![HumbleThinker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@HumbleThinker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HumbleThinker)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-on-black-crime-far-outnumbers-white-on-black-crime-why-no-discussion/797524/37 "2017-09-29T13:40:38Z")
> [@smsaks2000](#): > > Here’s a link to FBI data: > > [FBI — Expanded Homicide Data Table 6](https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls) > > You can see that black on black murder far outstrips the number of whites murdering African Americans. > > Why is this not mentioned by Democrats? > > Why are the NFL players not taking a knee or mentioning this? > > Seems fishy to me that no-one says a thing about this…look a the murder rates in Chicago for African Americans and compare against white murders of African Americans. > > Do they only care when the crime is perpetrated by a white person? A) It’s a red herring. B) Intraracial violence, including white on white crime, far outstrips interracial violence. Why do we only mention black and black crime and not white on white? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-on-black-crime-far-outnumbers-white-on-black-crime-why-no-discussion/797524/38 "2017-09-29T13:46:36Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > How many of us actually notice statues in the first place? If the statues are unimportant and meaningless, then there’s no problem with removing them, right? It obviously doesn’t work like that. People are out marching in the streets because they believe what the statues symbolize is important. But if you think your side is justified in demonstrating for one side of the argument, you can’t tell people that the other side is trivial. They believe what the statues symbolize is just as important as you do. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-on-black-crime-far-outnumbers-white-on-black-crime-why-no-discussion/797524/39 "2017-09-29T15:06:21Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Yes, why is there [never](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/12/black_community_is_concerned_with_black_on_black_crime_suggesting_otherwise.html) any [discussion](https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/08/black-people-are-not-ignoring-black-on-black-crime/378629/) of this! Even on this message board: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=798204](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=798204) ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-on-black-crime-far-outnumbers-white-on-black-crime-why-no-discussion/797524/40 "2017-09-29T16:21:18Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > [Violent crime disproportionately affects poor people and poor communities.](https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=5137) Therefore, fewer poor people & fewer poor communities = less murder. > > There’s also a strong correlation between [income inequality and violent crime](https://financesonline.com/how-income-inequality-affects-crime-rates/). No doubt. Less poverty=less crime. What you said is “government fighting poverty”= less crime. You supported the first but not the second. If you look at the numbers, you may find that violent crime has increased in Black neighborhoods since the government started fighting poverty. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-on-black-crime-far-outnumbers-white-on-black-crime-why-no-discussion/797524.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-on-black-crime-far-outnumbers-white-on-black-crime-why-no-discussion/797524.md?page=3)