# Black or African American **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 3, 2021, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-or-african-american/945610 "2021-07-03T17:22:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![epbrown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47774/32.png) [@epbrown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-or-african-american/945610/21 "2021-07-04T20:36:52Z")
I don’t think use _no_ descriptor is a realistic option for instances where using one at all seems required. Since humans can take offense at pretty much anything, I don’t doubt there’s someone that has on this issue. Having spent years working with other black people from about 30 different countries, I’ve yet to run into someone that has a problem with Black. And I’m still taking shit for mixing up Ghana and Guyana two years ago, so they aren’t exactly easy-going about this stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2021, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-or-african-american/945610/22 "2021-07-05T04:20:07Z")
First, where have you encountered the idea that “African-American” is more polite to refer to that community than “Black”, and where haveyou encountered the idea that “red”, “yellow”, etc. is polite to refer to other commmunities? Second, why would anyone object to being called “white” when that is the dominant community in the country? ---
**Author:** ![Saffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saffer/32/6440_2.png) [@Saffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saffer)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2021, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-or-african-american/945610/23 "2021-07-05T09:08:08Z")
Honest question (not trying to stir the pot): should the fact that white people are dominant/majority have any bearing on the perceived offensiveness of the term white? ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2021, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-or-african-american/945610/24 "2021-07-05T09:29:04Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I get the sense that black is slowly on the way out. It may not be regarded as widespread offensive yet, but will incrementally more and more be so. So African-American is more polite. My impression is the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2021, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-or-african-american/945610/25 "2021-07-05T11:00:25Z")
I don’t think “People of Color” has been mentioned yet, though I think it’s pretty clear this is the direction in which we are headed. Which makes one wonder about the offensiveness of “colored people”. As noted, there is not much logic to language. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2021, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-or-african-american/945610/26 "2021-07-05T14:01:11Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I get the sense that black is slowly on the way out. It may not be regarded as widespread offensive yet, but will incrementally more and more be so. So African-American is more polite. Small-b black may well be on the way out, but I’m having trouble imagining Black becoming taboo unless there’s a better term to take its place. And, as has been noted, “African-American” doesn’t mean the same thing: a person can be Black without being in any way American. The part I wonder about is “Black” (or “White,” for that matter) as a noun, as opposed to an adjective. We can refer to “Black people” or “Black lives,” or mention that a certain person is Black. But I can imagine it becoming frowned upon, if it isn’t already, to refer to “Blacks.” ---
**Author:** ![Ynnad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4491bb/32.png) [@Ynnad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ynnad)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2021, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-or-african-american/945610/27 "2021-07-05T14:08:19Z")
As mentioned several times earlier, the terms Black and African American do not always mean the same thing. Remember, the OP was specific to usage in the United States. If Black is or becomes the preferred term and African American becomes disfavored then we could still be precise by referring to either Black people or Black Americans depending on the context. But if African American is or becomes the preferred term and Black becomes disfavored and considered offensive then what term would we use to describe people who are not citizens or permanent residents of the United States and whose ancestral origins are at least partly from the original sub-Saharan people of Africa? My understanding of the current meaning of people of color is that it also includes people whose do not have ancestors at least partly from the original sub-Saharan people of Africa. Thus, the term people of color might not be precise enough depending on what you are try to express in writing. ---
**Author:** ![Ynnad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4491bb/32.png) [@Ynnad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ynnad)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2021, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-or-african-american/945610/28 "2021-07-05T14:13:41Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > … But I can imagine it becoming frowned upon, if it isn’t already, to refer to “Blacks.” I have looked at several style guides but none are conclusive about which is the preferred term, Black or African American, if they even mention the subject. But several did point out that African American can be used as both a noun and an adjectives but the term Black, all by itself, should never be used as a noun. (One did make an exception for using Black all by itself as a noun in a headline in a newspaper.) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2021, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-or-african-american/945610/29 "2021-07-05T14:20:09Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > …and where haveyou encountered the idea that “red”, “yellow”, etc. is polite to refer to other commmunities? @Velocity never said that. He said that it was odd that “black” is considered acceptable, but “red” and “yellow” are not acceptable. And, well, yes, it is odd. As I mentioned, language isn’t always logical. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2021, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-or-african-american/945610/30 "2021-07-05T15:08:03Z")
> [@Ynnad](#): > > what term would we use to describe people who are not citizens or permanent residents of the United States and whose ancestral origins are at least partly from the original sub-Saharan people of Africa? If you are not referring to colour dualism or political blackness where everyone is either black or white, and you are not referring to an American ethnic group, and you are not referring to skin colour (even if you were, not sure what the common denominator would be among dark-skinned people from Thailand, Australia, Palestine, and the Gambia, e.g.), and you are not referring to geography (you mention “sub-Saharan Africa”), then what kind of term are you looking for? If you write “people of colour,” that does not seem to have anything to do with sub-Saharan Africa per se. It just gives the impression of meaning “non-White”, that is, describing people in terms of what they are not regarded as, instead of saying anything at all about them. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2021, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-or-african-american/945610/31 "2021-07-05T15:20:02Z")
The term BIPOC - Black, Indigenous, and People of Color - is the latest favored usage. > **[The Difference Between ‘BIPOC’ and ‘POC’ Matters — Here’s Why](https://www.healthline.com/health/bipoc-meaning)** > > Trying to include everyone equally can, at times, minimize the voices of people who need to be heard. ---
**Author:** ![Ynnad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4491bb/32.png) [@Ynnad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ynnad)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2021, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-or-african-american/945610/32 "2021-07-05T15:20:11Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > … then what kind of term are you looking for? … I am not trying to re-invent some kind of new racial terminology. I am simply looking for factual answers on what is/are the **current** preferred term(s) in formal writing in the United States. If it were up to me we would just call everyone “people” and be done with it. But sometimes you are forced to refer to people using racial terminology in formal writing. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2021, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-or-african-american/945610/33 "2021-07-05T15:22:54Z")
There are no factual answers. There never have been and never will be. There is no such thing as “formal writing” wither. There are hundreds of types of formal writing and each one has its own culture. There is no easy or lazy way out. Listen and learn and is the only approach. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2021, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-or-african-american/945610/34 "2021-07-05T15:38:12Z")
If you are being truly formal, you may find yourself needing to define exactly whom it is you are talking about at the beginning of your article, so in practice it may not be so up in the air. @Exapno_Mapcase 's BIPOC link is for instance pretty clear that it refers to (1) people in the United States and Canada who are of (2) African or Caribbean descent (also acknowledging the possibility that some of the above may not like the label “Black”); (3) descended from native inhabitants of North America; or (4) any other non-Whites ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-or-african-american/945610/35 "2021-07-05T16:07:34Z")
“African-American” also includes people from North Africa whose ancestors were Carthaginian, Roman, Vandal, Arab, and whatever else that isn’t “Black”, and might even include people from southern Africa descended from original British and Dutch colonists who only know their European ancestry from the color of their skin. I know that’s not really the topic of the discussion, which is what to call people whose ancestors were enslaved in the US, but it’s something worth considering. Racial inequality is mainly due to perceived visual differences, as well as cultural differences, not from geographical origination. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2021, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-or-african-american/945610/36 "2021-07-05T16:16:28Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > “African-American” also includes […] people from southern Africa descended from original British and Dutch colonists who only know their European ancestry from the color of their skin. No, it does not. Charlize Theron is not African-American. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2021, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-or-african-american/945610/37 "2021-07-05T16:32:02Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > No, it does not. People, such as you, clearly believe it does not, but there is an argument that could be made the other way. It just depends on what you believe the term “African-American” means, and how much language usage has changed it from its literal meaning. I do not disagree that it’s a perfectly reasonable statement to say that such people are not “African-American” as the term has come to used, I’m merely pointing out that what it literally means is different from what it has been taken to mean by most people, and there can be arguments about how complete the shift in language is. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2021, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-or-african-american/945610/38 "2021-07-05T16:38:08Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > One important aspect is that the two words have different meanings. Black includes non-Americans. Exactly. The majority of my Black friends are not American. Why would I call someone who has never set foot in North America an African American? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2021, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-or-african-american/945610/39 "2021-07-05T16:40:08Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > there is an argument that could be made the other way Have that argument with Jesse Jackson. > [@glowacks](#): > > as the term has come to used No, the meaning it has is the meaning it has always had. It did not “come to” mean American descendants of African slaves, that has been its meaning since the 80s. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2021, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-or-african-american/945610/40 "2021-07-05T17:00:46Z")
And it goes beyond that as, in my obervation among my friends, recent immigrants to and citizens of America from countries like Kenya or Nigeria generally do not self-identify as African-American, but rather as “Kenyan/Nigerian” or “Kenyan/Nigerian-American” as the term African-American has a more specific meaning mentioned above. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-or-african-american/945610.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-or-african-american/945610.md?page=3)