# Black Panther movie (Marvel Cinematic Universe) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [October 16, 2017, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050 "2017-10-16T13:44:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/381 "2018-03-22T04:26:03Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Eric ‘Killmonger’ was created because his father was killed and he was abandoned by his family. Syndrome was created becase Mr. Incredible just didn’t want a sidekick, and ‘Buddy’ was resentful. I guess there is a very rough parallel there but it is hardly a matter of changing skin color; _Black Panther_ introduces the notion that Wakanda, a technologically advanced but isolationist African nation has a responsibility to other people of African heritage (presumably for not having acted to protect their ancestors or unifying Africa during the slavery and colonial eras), while in _The Incredibles_ the “Supers” are legally prohibited from using their powers to fight crime. If _The Incredibles_ has any parallel in the MCU it is to _Captain America: Civil War_, where a villain manipulates the hero into violating those restrictions and drives conflict within the team. And as we all know, _The Incredibles_ is actually just the best _Fantastic Four_ film ever made. I think the best parallel for Killmonger is Magneto (and unlike my previous post, I’m serious here). You have the same dynamic between Killmonger and T’Challa that you have between Magneto and Charles Xavier. Two men who generally agree on a goal but disagree on the means to get to that goal. One man wants to work within the system for slow and steady progress by changing attitudes; the other man wants to overthrow the system, eliminate anyone who challenges him, and impose his ideals by force. There’s the further parallel of the differing backgrounds of the two characters explaining their different methods. One character in each pair grew up in a wealthy and protected environment while the other character grew up in an impoverished environment surrounded by violence. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/382 "2018-03-22T13:32:48Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > What DID disturb me was the horrible depiction of supposed African geology. NO where in Africa are there mountains like the ones the Gorilla tribe lives in. No reason for them to exist, either. Oh, really? “NO where”? [You](https://www.google.co.za/search?safe=off&biw=1867&bih=965&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=JrCzWsjRF5T4gQa8453oBw&q=lesotho+mountains+winter&oq=lesotho+mountains&gs_l=psy-ab.3.1.0l5j0i30k1.13453.15157.0.18112.7.7.0.0.0.0.393.1346.2-4j1.5.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..2.5.1338...0i7i30k1j0i13k1j0i7i5i30k1.0.osYwcpnieBM) [sure](https://www.google.co.za/search?q=lesotho+snow&num=50&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjM06PlhIDaAhUlLsAKHam-B0cQ_AUICigB&biw=1867&bih=965)? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/383 "2018-03-22T14:33:34Z")
If they just meant snowcaps (and glaciers), I can vouch for that from personal experience. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/384 "2018-03-22T14:56:54Z")
I love the Godfather parallels, but I have a movie question. Were there pilots and crew in the Wakandan transports that Ross shot down? (Or were they remotely piloted?) If so, doesn’t anyone care about all their deaths? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/385 "2018-03-22T15:42:38Z")
It’s a civil war. People die. Greater good and all that. In short, no, no one cares. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/386 "2018-03-22T16:00:56Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I love the Godfather parallels, but I have a movie question. > > Were there pilots and crew in the Wakandan transports that Ross shot down? (Or were they remotely piloted?) If so, doesn’t anyone care about all their deaths? I assume that there were a number of dead after that battle, on both sides. They did all seem to be a bit cavalier at the end, having just fought a rather bloody civil war. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/387 "2018-03-22T17:14:52Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Oh, really? “NO where”? [You](https://www.google.co.za/search?safe=off&biw=1867&bih=965&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=JrCzWsjRF5T4gQa8453oBw&q=lesotho+mountains+winter&oq=lesotho+mountains&gs_l=psy-ab.3.1.0l5j0i30k1.13453.15157.0.18112.7.7.0.0.0.0.393.1346.2-4j1.5.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..2.5.1338...0i7i30k1j0i13k1j0i7i5i30k1.0.osYwcpnieBM) [sure](https://www.google.co.za/search?q=lesotho+snow&num=50&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjM06PlhIDaAhUlLsAKHam-B0cQ_AUICigB&biw=1867&bih=965)? Quite sure. Those are nothing at all like the mountains depicted in the movie as the home of the Gorilla tribe. It takes more than snow to make mountains like that. Take it from someone who grew up near the Sierra Nevada crest. The Rwenzori Mountains, however, do seem to be a close fit. So I am no longer upset by that depiction, since Uganda is roughly in the area covered by the fictional Wakanda. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/388 "2018-03-22T17:37:49Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I assume that there were a number of dead after that battle, on both sides. > > They did all seem to be a bit cavalier at the end, having just fought a rather bloody civil war. Well, just a single battle, but yes, despite the bloodless appearance there must certainly have been casualties on both sides which is a problem the MCU has struggled with. It was actually embraced in the beginning of _Civil War_, forming the impetus for “The Sokovian Accords”, only for the heroes to later face off at the airport, blasting each other with particle cannons, throwing cars and exploding fuel trucks at one another, and then somehow shocked when Rhodes falls out of the sky and suffers an actual critical injury. There must certainly have been hundreds if not thousands dead in The Battle of New York in _The Avengers_, and going back to at least _Thor_ the various movies have destory entire towns, had destructive fights in the middle of cities, not to mention all of the uncontained radiation and toxic materials that certainly must be strewn across the planet by now. And from what we’ve seen of the larger cosmic MCU from the _Guardians of the Galaxy_ films and _Thor: Ragnarok_, the greater world beyond Earth is a lawless and violent place where death and slavery are common and largely unrestricted. The MCU is actually a pretty chaotic and cruel place, all things considered. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/389 "2018-03-22T18:04:20Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > It’s a civil war. People die. Greater good and all that. In short, no, no one cares. Can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic, or serious, or just riffing on the MCU (or MU, in general) and how they ignore the implications of everything. If T’Challa was willing to not kill Erik, to try to bring him back into the fold, then maybe the people manning the transports deserved a second chance. When you start killing the ones you’re fighting for, then maybe you might be in the wrong. It was the lesson that Erik missed, and I was wondering if the movie missed it, too. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/390 "2018-03-22T18:24:18Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I assume that there were a number of dead after that battle, on both sides. > > They did all seem to be a bit cavalier at the end, having just fought a rather bloody civil war. I was kind of struck by how bloodless the battle was. Killmonger describes a vibranium spear as equivalent of an anti-tank weapon. You’ve got hundreds of infantry attacking eachother on foot with anti-tank weapons, you expect people are going to end up dismembered left and right. Mostly what I remember seeing is lots of people being knocked in the air semi-comically, and not a lot of corpses on the battlefield at the end. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/391 "2018-03-22T19:15:21Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > If T’Challa was willing to not kill Erik, to try to bring him back into the fold, then maybe the people manning the transports deserved a second chance. When you start killing the ones you’re fighting for, then maybe you might be in the wrong. It was the lesson that Erik missed, and I was wondering if the movie missed it, too. T’Challa offered to save Killmonger after his plans were defeated and he was personally incapacitated. The transports, on the other hand, had to be shot down, or Killmonger’s plan would succeed. The pilots deserved a second chance as much as Killmonger, but there was no way to give them that second chance without letting Killmonger win, and letting a bunch of assholes who were on-board with starting a global war get a do-over is less important than making sure that global war never happens in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/392 "2018-03-22T20:38:53Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I assume that there were a number of dead after that battle, on both sides. > > They did all seem to be a bit cavalier at the end, having just fought a rather bloody civil war. I agree. I found it off-putting. I get in the big battle the two sides going all out-- but T’Challa takes out that first transport just to make a dramatic entrance–it would have been more powerful for him to down the transport and pull the pilot out to safety and then walk up with his “The challenge isn’t over yet.” ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/393 "2018-03-22T21:33:38Z")
It’s a tricky balance. NPR’s Glen Weldon, a specialist in comics who has written books about Batman, believes that it’s an ironclad rule that superheroes don’t kill (a reason he didn’t like the movie _Man of Steel_), but that can easily get silly, like the A-Team or G.I. Joe firing military weapons everywhere but never killing anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/394 "2018-03-22T22:54:27Z")
_You’re probably thinking, “My boyfriend said this was a superhero movie but that guy in the suit just turned that other guy into a fucking kabab!” Well, I may be super, but I’m no hero. And yeah, technically, this is a murder. But some of the best love stories start with a murder. And that’s exactly what this is, a love story. And to tell it right… I gotta take you back to long before I squeezed this ass into red spandex._[RIGHT]— Wade ‘Deadpool’ Wilson[/RIGHT] Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/395 "2018-03-22T23:25:04Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The MCU is actually a pretty chaotic and cruel place, all things considered. And the film universe still hasn’t really touched on the most sinister and depraved part of the world from the comics: Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/396 "2018-03-22T23:42:42Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > And the film universe still hasn’t really touched on the most sinister and depraved part of the world from the comics: > > Canada. "Mos Eisley Spaceport. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.” Stranger ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2018, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/397 "2018-03-23T00:07:36Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > And the film universe still hasn’t really touched on the most sinister and depraved part of the world from the comics: > > Canada. MCU 5th Phase: The X-Men:North, the Tundra Avengers, the Frozen Four (plus)!!! **Alpha Flight** The world’s not ready! Hosers. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2018, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/398 "2018-03-23T00:12:56Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > _You’re probably thinking, “My boyfriend said this was a superhero movie but that guy in the suit just turned that other guy into a fucking kabab!” Well, I may be super, but I’m no hero. And yeah, technically, this is a murder. But some of the best love stories start with a murder. And that’s exactly what this is, a love story. And to tell it right… I gotta take you back to long before I squeezed this ass into red spandex._[RIGHT]— Wade ‘Deadpool’ Wilson[/RIGHT] > > Stranger My favorite of all comics adaptations. (I started to say “of all superhero movies”.) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2018, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/399 "2018-03-23T06:41:55Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Quite sure. Those are nothing at all like the mountains depicted in the movie as the home of the Gorilla tribe. It takes more than snow to make mountains like that. I wasn’t just talking about the snow, but also the chain nature, altitude and general peakiness. Perhaps you had a more specific geological feature in mind - I don’t recall any particular foldedness or volcanism on display in BP, so am now unsure what you meant by “geology”. The Drakensberg Mountains \*were \*some of the mountains actually used in the film for aerial shots (in addition to a local [canyon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oribi_Gorge)) but as far as I know, only for that intro flight. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2018, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/400 "2018-03-23T06:43:47Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I was kind of struck by how bloodless the battle was. Killmonger describes a vibranium spear as equivalent of an anti-tank weapon. You’ve got hundreds of infantry attacking eachother on foot with anti-tank weapons, you expect people are going to end up dismembered left and right. Mostly what I remember seeing is lots of people being knocked in the air semi-comically, and not a lot of corpses on the battlefield at the end. Well, what happens when a vibranium spear meets vibranium cloth armour? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050.md?page=21)