# Black Panther movie (Marvel Cinematic Universe) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [October 16, 2017, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050 "2017-10-16T13:44:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/141 "2018-02-19T15:26:27Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > +1 > > Minor quibbles - > [ul] > [li]The whole discussion about the movie providing African Americans the experience of “seeing themselves on the screen” left me looking for some diversity I did not see - people of size. Could we have had one or two folks on the Wakanda council be a little thicker?[/li][/ul] Ha! My friend and I noted this, actually before we even went to the movie we were sure there wouldn’t be any fat folks in Wakanda (both of us are quite large). We decided Forrest Whitaker was our rep. He was looking chunky. Honestly, tho, In a superheo movie I’m not trying to be represented. Not gonna lie, I’m partially there for the skin-tight costumes. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/142 "2018-02-19T15:36:18Z")
> [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](#): > > I note that the only Caucasians in the film are Andy “Gollum” Serkis and Martin “Bilbo” Freeman. > > Reeks of tolkienism to me. Bad pup! No biscuit! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/143 "2018-02-19T15:45:45Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > You mean Forrest Whittaker wasn’t thick enough for you? Honestly? For a movie that made such an issue of promoting representation on screen - no. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/144 "2018-02-19T15:54:45Z")
I don’t think it quite lived up to the sky-high reviews and anticipation… but that says more about the reviews and anticipation than it does about the movie itself, which I thought was good but not great. Pluses: -Overall look and feel and tone -Michael B Jordan (Killmonger) was, as always, fantastic -Andy Serkis as Claw was hilarious and entertaining (if underused) -The acting and dialog was generally top-notch Minuses: -Some uncharacteristlcally (for a big buget Marvel movie) bad SFX, particularly the last big hand to hand fight. But lots of fights and action scenes where it was hard to tell who was who. -Some not-very-clear plot elements. Why did Killmonger burn the rest of the flowers? Does no one ever need a second dose? I can’t figure out either the in-universe or out-universe explanation for that. And it seems like if you’re a canny guy who has just been named king of a nation where people have every reason to be suspicious of you, the last thing you want to do is suddenly ordering ritually important elder figures to start violating cenutry-old traditions Things I would have liked to see more of: -I think there could be a great scene out in the “fake” “cover” Wakanda with cheerily waving “native” “goat farmers” talking respectfully and humbly to the UN aid workers or whatever, and then as soon as the aid workers are gone, they go back inside, open up the hidden panels, and fire up their xbox and make sarcastic fun of the aid workers, obviously irked by the condescending attitude, but also appreciating that they mean well. Something about how the facade is maintained. There’s room for both comedy and also an interesting power dynamic there, along with commentary about colonialism, the “white savior” trope, etc. -I would have liked a further exploration of the main philosophical debate between the Wakandan isolationist traditionalists, vs the extreme interventionists (Killmonger), vs at least two potential middle paths (let’s provide technological and military aid to those who need it, but we don’t want to conquer the world ourselves; vs let’s provide social and economic aid but NOT generally engage in or support violence at all). There’s room for well meaning people to argue any of those positions, and interesting analogies to be drawn. For instance, Killmonger was, as an American, in Iraq and Afghanistan. Maybe they could be used as examples of why having a massive overwhelming technological edge is not, in and of itself, good enough? Still, overall, quite a fun movie, will certainly pay to see a sequel, but less likely to rewatch if it comes up on TV than, say, Avengers or Winter Soldier. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/145 "2018-02-19T16:04:14Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > Honestly? For a movie that made such an issue of promoting representation on screen - no. Well, if you want to go there, which I don’t since I think it’s ludicrous to watch a movie with a checklist like that, there weren’t any notable homosexual characters on screen either. It was a movie about an African country with a supermetal. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/146 "2018-02-19T16:11:04Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > Well, if you want to go there, which I don’t since I think it’s ludicrous to watch a movie with a checklist like that, there weren’t any notable homosexual characters on screen either. It was a movie about an African country with a supermetal. I said is was a minor quibble, that was my framing, no need to escalate with snarky accusations. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/147 "2018-02-19T16:13:15Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Oh crap…I had to leave mid-credits because my daughter was falling asleep and it was quite a long film as it was so I missed the final stinger - if anyone would care to tell me what happened in a spoiler box or PM I’d appreciate it. We did catch the one set at the UN in Vienna. It was a just a short scene of Bucky waking up in a hut and then talking to Shuri. Really, nothing we didn’t already know from Civil War. Probably just reminding everyone he was there before Infinity War ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/148 "2018-02-19T16:26:27Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Some not-very-clear plot elements. Why did Killmonger burn the rest of the flowers? Does no one ever need a second dose? The aid said “they are for the next king” - Killmonger said there would be no ‘next king’ and ordered them burned. He saw them as a challenge to his authority. And they were - if it were not for the secreted dose, T’chala would never have been able to defeat him. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/149 "2018-02-19T16:27:28Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > It was a just a short scene of Bucky waking up in a hut and then talking to Shuri. Really, nothing we didn’t already know from Civil War. Probably just reminding everyone he was there before Infinity War its a little more than that - remember the end of CW had bucky going into hybernation/sleep until “they could figure out how to fix him” - so clearly, they did. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/150 "2018-02-19T16:37:08Z")
Thanks, peeps. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/151 "2018-02-19T16:46:27Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > -Some not-very-clear plot elements. Why did Killmonger burn the rest of the flowers? Does no one ever need a second dose? I can’t figure out either the in-universe or out-universe explanation for that. And it seems like if you’re a canny guy who has just been named king of a nation where people have every reason to be suspicious of you, the last thing you want to do is suddenly ordering ritually important elder figures to start violating cenutry-old traditions I spent a lot more time thinking about this than I probably needed to and I don’t know if the comic books lay it out more clearly. It looked to me like once you’ve taken the flower and done the burial routine, you’re good unless you take the potion that strips it away like T’Challa did twice. (Where does that potion come from?) Killmonger burned the flowers because he doesn’t actually care about the traditions of Wakanda, he just took advantage of them to seize control. If he’s not planning on ever allowing himself to be challenged the way T’Challa did, he’ll never need to re-establish his black panther link. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/152 "2018-02-19T16:58:50Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > I said is was a minor quibble, that was my framing, no need to escalate with snarky accusations. Okay. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/153 "2018-02-19T17:14:16Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > If he’s not planning on ever allowing himself to be challenged the way T’Challa did, he’ll never need to re-establish his black panther link. Well, that, plus he’s less likely to be displaced in a coup if no single individual can take him out in personal combat. Of course, the only way a fictional state like Wakanda can be even partly plausible is if we allow for a _lot_ of cheating, i.e. not once in its ~10,000 year history until this movie did it ever have a king (by all indications, an absolute monarch) who was ambitious enough to engage in a war of conquest in which they could easily have conquered Africa, if not the entire world. There’s no indication the Wakandan people would do anything other than play along, despite some mild misgivings. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/154 "2018-02-19T17:22:41Z")
A public service announcement: There is now a [thread in the Pit about this movie](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=849505), too. So if you want to say things about it that aren’t appropriate for CS, you can go there. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/155 "2018-02-19T18:33:52Z")
Something that just occurred to me: Some posters have mentioned strong female characters, and others have mentioned war rhinos. Is there any scene featuring a [princess on a unicorn](https://www.cafepress.com/orderofthestick/10861046)? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/156 "2018-02-19T18:51:21Z")
Random thoughts after seeing it this weekend: Marvel is stepping up it’s villain game. Other than maybe Kaecilius, the villains of Phase 3 have been some of the best. Killmonger works well because even though he’s evil, you can be empathetic to his story. Everett Ross is basically the new Phil Coulson. I was disappointed in him in Civil War but I hope to see more of him. As a former pilot, maybe an appearance in Captain Marvel? I think this is the first time the villain is primarily referred to by his alter-ego. Most of the MCU villains either just have one name (Loki, Ultron) or is mainly called by their regular name (Stane instead of Ironmonger, Shmidt instead of The Red Skull). They call him Eric a few times, but it’s mostly Killmonger. I had to see it in 3D which I am not a fan of, but it worked well in a few scenes. Particularly in the casino scene in the tracking shot following Okoye. I’m planning on watching it again in 2d soon. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/157 "2018-02-19T19:03:16Z")
I did not recall him being called Killmonger in the film! I only ever heard him referred to as Eric or, once or twice, by his Wandan name. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/158 "2018-02-19T19:05:08Z")
Looks like I’m in the minority here. I like superhero movies. I have enjoyed what are condideres the weakest MCU movies like Thor 2. I put this on the lower rung of the MCU. Nothing overall bad but not particularly compelling. I went to a later show and had to fight from dozing off. I didn’t always succeed. > [@WordMan](#): > > Enjoyed it. Killmonger’s last words about dying free, like slaves jumping in the ocean takes the entire superhero-movie-watching experience and made me stop and go “damn.” In a good way. The movie delivers MCU goodness, but it is that messaging - and the fact that Killmonger was shown to have a valid point that T’Challa acts on - that makes this movie rise above. Killmonger was a criminal and a brutal murderer. His speech at the end was supposed to be redemption? Rang false for me. Murdered Forrest Whitaker, murdered a lady for the crime of being a snooty museum worker, murdered his girlfriend because she was in the way… being locked up for his crimes is hardly like being an innocent person stolen from your home. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/159 "2018-02-19T19:06:14Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I did not recall him being called Killmonger in the film! I only ever heard him referred to as Eric or, once or twice, by his Wandan name. When Ross was going briefing his record to the others he mentions that Killmonger was his callsign. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050/160 "2018-02-19T19:07:22Z")
I’ll give you the others but Forrest Whitaker was the one who interfered in a valid and legal duel, I seriously doubt that would be considered murder under their law. Or any law that allowed for duels really. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie-marvel-cinematic-universe/799050.md?page=9)