# Black Panther movie **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 18, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075 "2018-02-18T20:07:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/541 "2018-03-14T11:10:51Z")
Oh, one other thing - I also don’t give a fuck about the “liberal” bona fides of anyone you cite. We don’t all march in lockstep, you idiot. ---
**Author:** ![HelenTroy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helentroy/32/86_2.png) [@HelenTroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenTroy)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/542 "2018-03-14T11:12:33Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Why would they have to be “the force of black twitter” to be “things”? There are a lot of feminists and gay people you are dismissing here. How is it that the Knight Foundation (which hopefully you’re less ignorant about) has a report on Feminist Twitter, with fancy graphics and scholarly reports, if it is “not a thing”? Jesus. Just because you are familiar with Black Twitter and apparently not familiar with the others, does not give you the right to dismiss them as not existing. FFS I’m not dismissing the existence of feminists or gay people on twitter. What a silly thing to say, especially after I believe I mentioned they existed. There is a difference between feminists on twitter or discussions of feminist topics on twitter, two very real things, and Feminist Twitter. Same for gay people/topics on twitter. Also, the fact you are pearl-clutching over the terminology I use is adorable in its complete lack of awareness of current linguistics. Lol. You are intensely unable to discuss things with nuance, unless of course you’re being a rape or sexual assault apologist and then you have all the nuance in the world to dismiss every scenario that doesn’t fit the very narrow definition you’ve decided on for both. ~Insert Rihanna rolling up her window gif here.~ ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/543 "2018-03-14T12:14:13Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > You ask for a cite, then dismiss it when it hurts your argument. Whatever, dude. > > And yes: anyone being booked on a criminal charge is a matter of public record, which used to get routinely reported in the newspaper, in the “police blotter”, even if not covered elsewhere in the paper. > > Could the Internet age afford more anonymity? The information is still public record, but your grandma might not— well, scratch that: your grandma still reads the newspaper. Maybe I should say your niece might not see it because she doesn’t read through the newspaper. > > On the other hand, rape arrests are still fairly big news unless you are in a very large city. So they are likely to make the TV news, and whatever local online sources you look at on Facebook. And of course, if even one person in a social network sees it, it will spread. > Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I asked for a cite because there was no cite. Once there’s a cite, then I can actually look at it, evaluate it, and respond to it, which is what I did. And I don’t believe that the police concluding that a certain amount of allegations are false or baseless tells us much about how common maliciously false rape accusations (and I assume you’re concerned about maliciously false accusations, as opposed to mistaken identity or honestly different recollections of an event, right?). As for arrests going public, that’s not what was being discussed. You said or implied that with accusations, the accused becomes public while the accuser does not. I’m highly skeptical of this. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/544 "2018-03-14T13:05:07Z")
If I were the one so ignorant about such a basic fact, people would be having a field day. Have you never read a news story about a rape case? > **[Crime Victim Anonymity](https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/crime-victim-anonymity.html)** > > Curious about what is crime victim anonymity? Read all relevant information about it from the experts. Check this article for more info. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/545 "2018-03-14T13:07:04Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > If I were the one so ignorant about such a basic fact, people would be having a field day. Have you never read a news story about a rape case? > > [Crime Victim Anonymity | LegalMatch](https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/crime-victim-anonymity.html) > Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk This doesn’t conflict with anything I said. I remain skeptical of your claim that any time someone is accused of rape, the accusation and the name of the accused becomes public. If that’s not your claim, then I’m not sure what you’re complaining about. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/546 "2018-03-14T13:18:01Z")
Looks like you’re being slippery to cover for some embarrassment, but whatever. Maybe if you reflect on some of these facts I’m providing you, you might change your position some. But yes: arrests are a matter of public record, even if prosecutors ultimately decide not to go to trial. Hence the asymmetric nature of the accusations in this scenario I laid out. One person is not really being meaningfully accused in a public sense because no one knows who she is. The other one is very publicly being accused, but without the public having the chance to evaluate the credibility of the accuser. But I forgot: somehow everything is tilted in favor of the man in this situation, in some nebulous way. :rolleyes: BTW, Dibble: kudos for bringing us back to colonialism at least. Your purity test illustrates very well my complaint from so many pages back about not viewing colonialism with all its shades of gray. If you don’t understand that the people being colonized were better off with more colonizers like Mill and fewer who were out for exploitation and cruelty, I don’t know what to tell you. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/547 "2018-03-14T13:24:06Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Looks like you’re being slippery to cover for some embarrassment, but whatever. Maybe if you reflect on some of these facts I’m providing you, you might change your position some. You’re jumping all over the place because so many of your claims are bullshit (or, at best, unsupported). I make a point of being pretty specific, and you haven’t actually refuted anything I’ve said. > [@](#): > > But yes: arrests are a matter of public record, even if prosecutors ultimately decide not to go to trial. Hence the asymmetric nature of the accusations in this scenario I laid out. One person is not really being meaningfully accused in a public sense because no one knows who she is. The other one is very publicly being accused, but without the public having the chance to evaluate the credibility of the accuser. So what? This doesn’t dispute anything I’ve said. Tons of accusations never lead to arrests. > [@](#): > > But I forgot: somehow everything is tilted in favor of the man in this situation, in some nebulous way. :rolleyes: Yes, I get that you are unconcerned by the overwhelming amount of women who have been raped or assaulted and never received justice, but terribly worried by the very tiny number of falsely accused men whose lives were adversely affected. It doesn’t reflect well on you, and I think you should rethink that. > [@](#): > > BTW, Dibble: kudos for bringing us back to colonialism at least. Your purity test illustrates very well my complaint from so many pages back about not viewing colonialism with all its shades of gray. If you don’t understand that the people being colonized were better off with more colonizers like Mill and fewer who were out for exploitation and cruelty, I don’t know what to tell you. They would have been far, far better off without any colonizers at all. Might as well defend slavery by pointing out that some slave owners didn’t routinely rape their slaves. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/548 "2018-03-14T13:30:36Z")
FFS. Did you read the excerpt from the New Yorker piece? All those strong progressive positions in the middle of the 19th fucking century, but you’re just going to dismiss him because he’s not quite in tune with what a woke person in 2018 would think. Yet the vast majority of modern day Muslims’ beliefs are much further from this ideal, but they get a pass from TWC, apparently solely because of their complexion and hair texture. It’s absurd. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/549 "2018-03-14T13:36:25Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > FFS. Did you read the excerpt from the New Yorker piece? All those strong progressive positions in the middle of the 19th fucking century, but you’re just going to dismiss him because he’s not quite in tune with what a woke person in 2018 would think. Where did I dismiss him or his beliefs? You used Mill to defend colonialism (or one type of colonialism). That’s like defending certain types of slavery. Mill may have had many admirable qualities, and views that were particularly progressive for his time, but he still said things (paternalistic and racist things) in support of colonialism and imperialism, and it’s entirely reasonable to criticize him for these things. > [@](#): > > Yet the vast majority of modern day Muslims’ beliefs are much further from this ideal, but they get a pass from TWC, apparently solely because of their complexion and hair texture. It’s absurd. Not sure who TWC is, and I don’t know what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/550 "2018-03-14T13:51:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Not sure who TWC is, and I don’t know what you’re talking about. He’s not getting traction on his move from colonialism to false rape accusations, so now he’ll try anti-Muslim bigotry and see how that works. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/551 "2018-03-14T13:55:27Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Not sure who TWC is, and I don’t know what you’re talking about. One of [these](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWC). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/552 "2018-03-14T13:57:01Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > One of [these](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWC). Okay, I’m going to assume it’s “The Wrestling Channel”. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/553 "2018-03-14T14:17:57Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > BTW, Dibble: kudos for bringing us back to colonialism at least. \*I \*did? I thought it was _you_ who quoted the racist imperialist flunky first? > [@](#): > > Your purity test illustrates very well my complaint from so many pages back about not viewing colonialism with all its shades of gray. If you don’t understand that the people being colonized were better off with more colonizers like Mill and fewer who were out for exploitation and cruelty, I don’t know what to tell you. Well, look at _that_ - a real live false dichotomy in the wild. And it’s a big 'un! I could give a fuck that Mill was better than, say, Columbus. What he wasn’t better than was no colonialism at all. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/554 "2018-03-14T14:31:02Z")
Oh, and stop trying to make “TWC” happen, you pathetic troll. It’s not going to happen! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/555 "2018-03-14T14:37:17Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Not sure who TWC is, and I don’t know what you’re talking about. “The Woke crowd” - someone’s trying too hard. And as for the rest, your guess is as good as mine - especially the “hair texture” thing, that’s just … divorced from reality. I mean, a lot of Muslims are darker than the average White person, so I suppose “complexion” makes sense but … “hair texture”? It’s just bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/556 "2018-03-14T19:34:12Z")
Lots of Muslims in my building (or families with women who just like to wear the hijab for no reason), and their hair is definitely a different texture than that of the people of Northern European ancestry to whom TWC applies their double standard. BTW, I don’t give a fuck if TWC “happens”. This is not “fetch”, mmkay? It’s my own snark, combined with utilitarian laziness since it is a group I refer to again and again. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/557 "2018-03-14T19:55:06Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Lots of Muslims in my building (or families with women who just like to wear the hijab for no reason), and their hair is definitely a different texture than that of the people of Northern European ancestry to whom TWC applies their double standard. > > BTW, I don’t give a fuck if TWC “happens”. This is not “fetch”, mmkay? It’s my own snark, combined with utilitarian laziness since it is a group I refer to again and again. > Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Tell us more about this fictional group of people TWC. Is outer space involved? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/558 "2018-03-14T19:57:00Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Lots of Muslims in my building (or families with women who just like to wear the hijab for no reason), and their hair is definitely a different texture than that of the people of Northern European ancestry to whom TWC applies their double standard. Un-fucking-believable. “Muslim hair texture”, can he sink any lower, I wonder? > [@](#): > > BTW, I don’t give a fuck if TWC “happens”. Whatever you say, Gretchen. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/559 "2018-03-14T20:09:51Z")
If you think Muslims have a hair texture, then you are clearly talking about an ethnicity or race, not a religion. Is the point of all this to just draw SlackerInc out into revealing all the bigotry we already know about? He’s an Islamophobe and White Nationalist. He’s made that quite clear. The weird thing is that he’s also anti-Trump, so he might actually be doing some good in the alt-right community. He can agree with them on stuff and still tell them how Trump is bad. The rest of us can’t do that. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/560 "2018-03-14T20:25:35Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Kimstu, first off: you strike me as a feminist. How do you feel about this claim (now, to my surprise, coming from two different people) that there’s no “feminist Twitter”? Well, I’m not much of a Twitter user myself. I definitely am aware of a lot of feminists who post on Twitter, just as I’m aware of a lot of authors and actors who post on Twitter. I have not seen them routinely described as constituting virtual communities called “feminist Twitter” or “author Twitter” or “actor Twitter”, in the way that the virtual community of black Twitter users discussing issues of special relevance to black people is often called “Black Twitter”. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > Anyway, just to clarify: by “rights” I don’t only mean the minimum of protection against incarceration. Then I don’t really know what you do mean. Legal, constitutional rights have a very specific meaning, and their infringement is a very serious matter. Legal rights are special because they apply just as stringently to shitty people being assholes as they do to nice people being nice. That’s not equally true of all the “mandates” executed by “society”, to borrow the phrasing of your Mill quote. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > But let’s say it’s someone else, anonymously accused of full on rape (or robbery, or whatever) and the uncorroborated accusation by a single accuser is widely disseminated online, but he vehemently denies it. To my way of thinking, it’s not ethically right to join the Internet mob who just declares him a criminal, end of story. You just don’t know if it’s bullshit. Okay, but in what way are this hypothetical person’s “rights” being violated? Since you say you’re using “rights” to mean more than actual legal rights, where are you drawing the line between “people uncharitably jumping to conclusions about me” and “people violating my rights”? > [@SlackerInc](#): > > I see signs #MeToo, though an important watershed moment in many ways, may be sliding into moral panic territory. I don’t know the full story on Garrison Keillor, for instance, but MPR has not so far demonstrated to my satisfaction that he deserves to have his life and career just wiped away like Winston Smith did to yesterday’s news stories. :dubious: :dubious: :dubious: Golly. Dialing back the hyperbole a bit here (since I assume you are not expecting us to believe that Keillor’s career, much less his life, has been literally “wiped away”), in what way are you claiming that Keillor’s “rights” are being violated, according to your own definition of “rights”? You also haven’t made it clear how the reasons for MPR’s decision to end contracts with Keillor should be “demonstrated to your satisfaction”. An MPR official has [described their decision-making process in an open letter](https://www.mpr.org/stories/2018/01/23/a-note-from-jon-mctaggart): > [@](#): > > Ending our contracts with Garrison was a painful decision, one that we did not make lightly. We acted with the support of our Board of Trustees following an extended, independent, fact-finding investigation that included notifying Garrison of the allegations and giving him an opportunity to respond to them. We are confident of the facts that informed our decision and we stand by it. […] > > In a letter to MPR dated October 22, 2017, the woman’s attorney described dozens of sexually inappropriate incidents directed at her client over a period of years. In fact, the woman’s attorney presented us with a 12-page letter detailing many of the alleged incidents, including excerpts of emails and written messages, requests for sexual contact and explicit descriptions of sexual communications and touching. Because of the serious and sensitive nature of the allegations, we decided to undertake an independent investigation and we told Garrison that we were doing so. > > Beginning in November 2017, the investigator reviewed documents and interviewed employees of Garrison’s companies, MPR employees, and others for information about the allegations. Most importantly, before we made the decision to end our relationship with Garrison’s companies, Garrison was asked for his response to the specific allegations, including alleged sexual contact and communications, and he responded to the allegations while accompanied by his attorney. […] > > When MPR received the detailed letter of allegations in late October, I promptly informed the MPR Board Chair. We decided to appoint a special Trustee committee of four widely respected MPR Board leaders to oversee the process and advise me on decisions. I communicated with members of the special Trustee committee frequently, and we met regularly as the situation unfolded. To ensure impartiality, the outside law firm advising MPR engaged a separate and independent law firm to perform the fact-finding investigation. MPR provided the independent investigator with all requested access to MPR documents, emails, text messages and other materials to assist in the search for facts and the investigator informed the special Trustee committee of the facts she uncovered. The facts, not mere allegations, were the basis for our decision. Can you please explain exactly what you feel MPR should have done differently or additionally to “demonstrate to your satisfaction” their justification for ending Keillor’s contracts? 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