# Black Panther movie **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 18, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075 "2018-02-18T20:07:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/161 "2018-02-23T20:55:16Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Yes: I was actually a little surprised there wasn’t more controversy, or at least disagreement, within black intellectual circles or more broadly among the “woke” crowd, due to the way they played into stereotypes, an African version of what used to be decried as “Orientalism” in some quarters. In addition to the point you raise, there’s the facial mutilation jewelry (what percentage of sub-Saharan Africans do stuff like that nowadays?), the use of spears (even if they are super high tech), warriors riding rhinos, etc. Even all the drumming: the various music scenes in Africa are incredibly diverse, but traditional drumming is far from a major player. The culture and characters were something of a broad pastische of African cultures (and selecting the most visually memorable of them, like facial mutilation/jewelry), but then, that’s true of their characters in other films as well. Tony Stark is a prototypical imagining of a genius industrialist inventor, Bruce Banner is a socially awkward bumbling scientist, Steve Rogers is the literal ninety-pound weakling with heart before his transformation and unironic patriotic supersoldier afterward, Peter Quill is a child of the ‘Eighties who never grew out of his fascination with David Hasselhoff and _Footloose_, et cetera. It is a testament to the writing and acting that the characters in the other films transcent these achetypes, and the same is mostly true in _Black Panther_ as much as possible within the confines of a single movie. Even if they don’t make another standalone _Black Panther_ movie, T’Challa and Shuri will be part of the future of the MCU, and those won’t be ‘black films’ as much as films with substantial and well-developed black main characters that will be a draw regardless of the minority community energizing people to go see it because it’s just a good movie with broad appeal. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/162 "2018-02-23T21:35:39Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [Also, it’s not exactly the first super tech society we’ve seen in the MCU that prefers to arm their soldiers with pointy sticks.](https://exploderblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/hela-before-killing-soldiers.jpg) I’ve actually wondered about this recently . In the Red Rising trilogy, the same thing occurs - though there are firearms for the plebes, the elite use swords (well, fantastically advanced “swords”, but melee weapons nonetheless). While advances in ranged weaponry have led to the virtual annihilation of melee combat. Is there a possibility that further technology could shift that balance? As for the OP, he’s attempting to pass off a bad guy’s words as the hero’s, which is about as relevant as saying Obama grabbed Michelle by the pussy. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/163 "2018-02-23T21:47:22Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > As for the OP, he’s attempting to pass off a bad guy’s words as the hero’s, which is about as relevant as saying Obama grabbed Michelle by the pussy. Well, he probably has at some point… Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/164 "2018-02-24T00:44:53Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > What is it about education that you think precludes irrational or damaging behaviours? That wasn’t my point. My curiosity was about an educated population that casually submits to an absolute ruler who gets his position through heredity or combat, as opposed to some kind of representational system with individual rights. Since it was established that Wakandans had been sending spies abroad for centuries, they had ample chance to observe political evolution elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/165 "2018-02-24T01:17:49Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [Saw this article on the subject the other day.](https://www.theroot.com/audiences-across-africa-hail-black-panther-for-humanizi-1823155921) Interesting! Love the fashions they are wearing. And I can’t see the word “Dakar” without thinking of that awesome pronunciation from the NPR reporter (I won’t try to write her name as I know I’d butcher it). I am a little surprised, but good to know. I still think it’s likely that this movie will look a bit cringey in fifty years. > [@Miller](#): > > [Also, it’s not exactly the first super tech society we’ve seen in the MCU that prefers to arm their soldiers with pointy sticks.](https://exploderblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/hela-before-killing-soldiers.jpg) Looks like that must be one of the three MCU films I haven’t seen—probably Asgard, since two of the three are Thor pictures (I do intend to see the recent one on Blu-ray, because it is said to be so funny and different). > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I’m fine with honest discussions about whether immigrant cultures are bringing problems with them. I wouldn’t want to let 50 million rural people from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan immigrate here because their culture would drag us down. Cosigned. It’s amazing how controversial it is to take that very reasonable position. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/166 "2018-02-24T02:32:05Z")
Yeah, that’s from Ragnarok, which is one of my favorite MCU films to date. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/167 "2018-02-24T06:23:50Z")
Yeah, I’m looking forward to that coming to Blu-ray. I have a question, or maybe it’s a thought experiment, particularly for those familiar with Wakanda’s capabilities from the comics (but anyone else should feel free to weigh in). What happens if T’Challa and his allies fail, and Killmonger’s plan is allowed to continue? Won’t the other countries figure out in fairly short order that these weapons are coming from Wakanda? And so then Wakanda has to reckon with the UN Security Council and all its members’ militaries (including nukes!), not to mention—presumably—the Avengers. Did Killmonger realize how much he was biting off there? Or are we supposed to think their tech is so advanced that they can still win against all those combined forces amassed against them? I ask this because the ending is being framed as “The Black Panther saved billions of First Worlders from being killed” whereas I would tend to think it is his own people he really saved, as they would have ended up wiped off the map, a glowing crater. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/168 "2018-02-24T08:57:50Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Well, in that case, the o.p is a fuck-ass shit-stirring troll using the opportunity of a popular film that portrays a positive view of an African culture to create a false equivalence between a fictional character in a superhero movie and an actual bombastic demagogue who managed to sleeze his way into the White House with the assistance of Russian cyberintelligence and attacking his opponents with personal insults and innuendo instead of presenting anything like a coherent platform for fixing the imagined and real problems that our nation has to deal with. > > Stranger Try as they might to blame the Russians the fact is that Americans have only themselves to blame for Trump. Although I guess it could be seen as poetic justice considering the many many times the US has interfered in the elections of other nations (pick a South American country.) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/169 "2018-02-24T13:37:41Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > I’ve actually wondered about this recently . In the Red Rising trilogy, the same thing occurs - though there are firearms for the plebes, the elite use swords Well, I’m told they \*are \*more elegant weapons. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > That wasn’t my point. My curiosity was about an educated population that casually submits to an absolute ruler who gets his position through heredity or combat, as opposed to some kind of representational system with individual rights. Since it was established that Wakandans had been sending spies abroad for centuries, they had ample chance to observe political evolution elsewhere. Maybe they’ve \*so \*enlightened that they’ve observed the truth that democracy is only a smokescreen for plutocracy in too many of those “politically evolved” countries? Hell, I’m an anarchist and I’d take my chances in an enlightened monarch over what passes for representative democracy in America. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > Or are we supposed to think their tech is so advanced that they can still win against all those combined forces amassed against them? I think that we \*are \*supposed to think that, yes. Especially since _Age of Ultron_’s already shown us vibranium makes a better WMD than any nuclear bomb. You think they don’t have cloaked globe-crossing cruise missiles ready to go should they ever be _really_ threatened? I mean, Wakanda has a contingency plan for dealing with _Galactus_. You think they’re going to be scared of the UN? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/170 "2018-02-24T14:02:04Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I think that we \*are \*supposed to think that, yes. Especially since _Age of Ultron_’s already shown us vibranium makes a better WMD than any nuclear bomb. You think they don’t have cloaked globe-crossing cruise missiles ready to go should they ever be _really_ threatened? “The most versatile substance on the planet, and they used it to make a frisbee.” I don’t think Wakanda is very impressed with the technological prowess of the rest of the world. > [@MrDibble](#): > > I mean, Wakanda has a contingency plan for dealing with _Galactus_. You think they’re going to be scared of the UN? Although this begs the question of why they’re not aware of and step in to deal with Ultron. Klaw doesn’t seem to have been all that secretive about hiding that Nakia and her spy corps couldn’t have found him, and you’d think they’d have some way of detecting large concentrations of vibranium remotely. So there is kind of an inexplicable lapse of awareness or maybe they just don’t care about Ultron devastating the Northern Hemisphere, but given the manhunt for Klaw and the missing vibranium you’d think they’d have found him previously. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/171 "2018-02-24T15:01:03Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Maybe they’ve \*so \*enlightened that they’ve observed the truth that democracy is only a smokescreen for plutocracy in too many of those “politically evolved” countries? Hell, I’m an anarchist and I’d take my chances in an enlightened monarch over what passes for representative democracy in America. And occasionally you’ll be subject to the mad whims of a monarch like Killmonger who has no checks of balances on his power. In Wakanda’s supposed ~10000-year history, there must have been others as aggressive or more aggressive than him (especially given that physical aggression is one of the established paths to the throne) and if Wakanda has such awesome nifty-cool tech that it could defeat the combined militaries of the world even now, how did it resist conquering the entire world already? There are little ways to spin this for more plausibility, i.e. they’re not _that_ advanced, not are they especially creative. An important aspect of sending spies abroad isn’t just to detect potential threats to Wakanda, but also to track the world’s industrial and technological progress, and they eagerly copy ideas which, with their Vibranium advantage, they can dramatically improve upon. Perhaps they didn’t invent mag-lev trains, but once they picked up the _concept_ of mag-lev by reading the works of Hermann Kemper circa 1938, they could quickly build a vibranium-based working version while the rest of the world had to wait decades. If there’s an impetus for Wakanda to reveal itself now, it could be that the rest of the world has gotten large enough and fast enough that Wakanda’s tech advantage, once measurable in centuries, is steadily shrinking to where they’re now only 50-75 years ahead. If they’re going to conquer the world, they’re running out of time when this will be easy - soon it will be difficult and soon after that, impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/172 "2018-02-24T20:45:11Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > That wasn’t my point. My curiosity was about an educated population that casually submits to an absolute ruler who gets his position through heredity or combat, as opposed to some kind of representational system with individual rights. Since it was established that Wakandans had been sending spies abroad for centuries, they had ample chance to observe political evolution elsewhere. You dare to show your face in this thread again after post #153?! For VERY shame. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/173 "2018-02-24T22:38:27Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Try as they might to blame the Russians the fact is that Americans have only themselves to blame for Trump. Although I guess it could be seen as poetic justice considering the many many times the US has interfered in the elections of other nations (pick a South American country.) Prepare yourself for a never ending, profane sentence. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/174 "2018-02-24T22:57:01Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Prepare yourself for a never ending, profane sentence. Nah, 10-20 sounds about right. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/175 "2018-02-25T05:44:13Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Controversy? It’s a movie with black people in it, so of course there’s a controversy. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Because a handful of vocal racists can’t accept the notion that magical supertechnology drawn from a comic book could be developed by even fictional Africans. Only (white) Americans like Stark or Pym and maybe a few select Asians can do that. > > Captain America would like to have [a few words with them](https://media1.tenor.com/images/10840baf6b27a3a91e90e59f93f8dc15/tenor.gif?itemid=5705357), BTW. > > Stranger > [@Leaffan](#): > > Seri-fucking-ously? > > How fucked is that? All of it. All the fucked. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/176 "2018-02-25T07:01:28Z")
Martin Freeman and Andy Serkis as the only two major characters who happen to be white? Tolkien white guys, if you will… ---
**Author:** ![Trafalgar\_Laura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trafalgar_laura/32/2907_2.png) [@Trafalgar\_Laura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trafalgar_Laura)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/177 "2018-02-25T12:56:19Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Martin Freeman and Andy Serkis as the only two major characters who happen to be white? > > Tolkien white guys, if you will… This pun keeps happening in these Black Panther threads. WHY MUST YOU DO THIS ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/178 "2018-02-25T13:48:40Z")
> [@Trafalgar\_Laura](#): > > This pun keeps happening in these Black Panther threads. > > WHY MUST YOU DO THIS ☹ [”Better clench up, Legolas!”](http://rebloggy.com/post/1k-lord-of-the-rings-the-avengers-clint-barton-legolas-lotredit-avengersedit-m/110045645716) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/179 "2018-02-25T17:02:23Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > And occasionally you’ll be subject to the mad whims of a monarch like Killmonger who has no checks of balances on his power. I wouldn’t say _no_ checks - obviously Killmonger couldn’t effectively rule alone. > [@](#): > > In Wakanda’s supposed ~10000-year history, there must have been others as aggressive or more aggressive than him …or Killmonger was \*only \*aggressive in an assholish way because of the American side of him, and if he’d been raised a responsible Wakandan, he wouldn’t be like that. Contrast him with M’Baku, who was also aggressive, but ultimately honourable. > [@](#): > > if Wakanda has such awesome nifty-cool tech that it could defeat the combined militaries of the world even now, how did it resist conquering the entire world already? Because they’re not petty and small-minded? Hell, canonically Wakanda has interstellar starships, why should they care about conquering some hicks when they have the stars? The impression I’ve always gotten from the comics is that Wakandans basically view the rest of humanity (and that includes other Africans) the same way the Asgardians seem to - as stupid, violent children. [That’s why they won’t give them the cure for cancer.](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/2/29/T%27Challa_%28Earth-616%29_from_Black_Panther_Vol_4_3.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160121162438) > [@](#): > > There are little ways to spin this for more plausibility, i.e. they’re not _that_ advanced, not are they especially creative. The film history may be shown to differ, but in the comics, Wakandan scientists split the atom a century before anyone else. That would be some 80 years before the West even knew radioactivity existed. They apparently weren’t copying jackshit. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075/180 "2018-02-25T19:36:25Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > [That’s why they won’t give them the cure for cancer.](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/2/29/T%27Challa_%28Earth-616%29_from_Black_Panther_Vol_4_3.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160121162438) Can anyone else read that? On my iPhone the letters are blurred together when I zoom in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-panther-movie/809075.md?page=10)