# Black Parents Demand that Catholic School Beat Their Kids? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 30, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515 "2011-03-30T15:18:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/21 "2011-03-30T18:15:08Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > And this is why it was rarely used but so effective. > > I went to a Catholic school. We didn’t have discipline problems. Sister Mary Wooden Ruler saw to that. The parents who are protesting know it works and want their kids to get the same no-nonsense education they got. No, it was stupid and used improperly. I was a straight A student except in one thing - handwriting. I got Ds in handwriting regularly. So I was supposed to take one of my D papers home for my mother to sign it, and forgot for three days running. I got paddled in front of the entire class for this oh so horrible infraction. I still rankle at the unjustness of it. That didn’t teach me to respect the teacher or that I should listen. It just taught me that punishment is cruel and arbitrary and no matter how good you do you are still fucked if the teacher feels like it. How anybody can think that beating a child is appropriate is unfathomable. There are ways to humiliate and punish without beating. And I am entirely of the opinion that we have gone too far the other way, that we are much too kind to our children now, but I would never advocate going back to beating them. Think about it. You are subject to the whims of your teacher. That’s great if it’s a great teacher. What happens when it’s a psycho bitch that should have retired years and years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/22 "2011-03-30T18:15:56Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And when those children went out and assaulted those who couldn’t fight back, just like their teachers were doing to them, that was just fine right? If they go out and beat some gay guy to death for being “sinful” that’s a small price to pay to shut them up when they were in school. And yes, that is going to be the kind of long term effect you can expect; brutality spawns brutality. You have no clue what you’re talking about. None. You’re just pulling mental straw men out of your ass for the sake of argument. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/23 "2011-03-30T18:20:26Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You have no clue what you’re talking about. None. You’re just pulling mental straw men out of your ass for the sake of argument. No. I’m just refusing to romanticize beating children, or the effects of doing so. Beating a gay guy for being sinful, beating your wife for not being submissive enough, torturing a prisoner because he won’t confess to what you think he did; that’s just the same principle as “corporal punishment” taken into adulthood. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/24 "2011-03-30T18:38:39Z")
If these parents are so set on corporal punishment for misbehavior, let them wait until the kid gets home and THEN use it. Don’t rely on the teachers to teachers to do it. (BTW, I also went to Catholic school, and I think I got spanked ONCE. A quick smack on the butt in first grade when me and two of my friends got bored during lunch, so we went to the back of the cafeteria and started harassing the kids in band practice. Other than that, it was extra homework, missing recess, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/25 "2011-03-30T18:41:56Z")
Kids these days don’t know how to behave because they don’t get spanked when they are bad. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/26 "2011-03-30T18:43:33Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > So if the kid or their parent picks up a chair and pounds the teacher who does such a thing until they stop squirming, I suppose we shouldn’t call that "beating’ either. It’s…extreme massage. Very poor comparison. Corporal punishment is lawful in some places, attacking people with chairs is not. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/27 "2011-03-30T18:48:02Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > Kids these days don’t know how to behave because they don’t get spanked when they are bad. Have any evidence to back that up, sparky? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/28 "2011-03-30T18:49:15Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > How anybody can think that beating a child is appropriate is unfathomable. Nobody does. A spanking is not a beating. I don’t know how you managed to “forget” to bring your paper home 3 times but you should have been doing lines on day 1. > [@Anaamika](#): > > There are ways to humiliate and punish without beating. And I am entirely of the opinion that we have gone too far the other way, that we are much too kind to our children now, but I would never advocate going back to beating them. Think about it. You are subject to the whims of your teacher. That’s great if it’s a great teacher. What happens when it’s a psycho bitch that should have retired years and years ago. You shot down your own argument with this. First you say the humiliation is worse than doing lines and then you go on to say there are other ways to humiliate and punish. I don’t know if you went to a Catholic School but they were pretty reserved about spanking when I went. The meanest bitchiest teacher in my school never spanked anybody. It was the last line of disciplinary defense to be used as such. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/29 "2011-03-30T18:49:26Z")
Black parents probably have a better idea of what their children need than do white liberals. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/30 "2011-03-30T18:50:43Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Black parents probably have a better idea of what their children need than do white liberals. I don’t think race is relevant to parenting. If beating your children is bad, then it’s bad. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/31 "2011-03-30T18:54:41Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No. I’m just refusing to romanticize beating children, or the effects of doing so. Beating a gay guy for being sinful, beating your wife for not being submissive enough, torturing a prisoner because he won’t confess to what you think he did; that’s just the same principle as “corporal punishment” taken into adulthood. I got smacked by a nun when I was in the 5th grade. Right across the face. It was for insulting a kid for being effeminate. She literally slapped the stupid out of me while reading me the riot act in front of everybody. You are clueless about the Catholic Church. Clueless. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/32 "2011-03-30T18:59:27Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I got smacked by a nun when I was in the 5th grade. Right across the face. It was for insulting a kid for being effeminate. She literally slapped the stupid out of me while reading me the riot act in front of everybody. You are clueless about the Catholic Church. Clueless. I feel sorry for the “lesson” you apparently learned from that cruel bitch. ---
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/33 "2011-03-30T19:00:12Z")
Also, I think comparing the regimented corporal punishment in my school to a “beating” is generally an unfair comparison. In my private school growing up, corporal punishment was indeed used. It was mostly reserved for things like cheating on a test. It was always in the principal’s office, in private, administered by the principal and witnessed by another teacher. If a girl was ever administered CP, I was unaware, but in those instances two female teachers would have been involved – one to administer, the other to witness. It was not a lashing out in anger, was done quietly, and never more than two “licks” with the paddle. For the record, my folks administered CP at home in a similar fashion: calmly, with discussion before and after, and very clear rules as to when and why CP would be administered. Hardly a “beating.” ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/34 "2011-03-30T19:03:19Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I got smacked by a nun when I was in the 5th grade. Right across the face. It was for insulting a kid for being effeminate. She literally slapped the stupid out of me while reading me the riot act in front of everybody. She was a bully who hit a child because she knew he wouldn’t hit back. That’s the _real_ lesson she was teaching the children she struck. Brutalize those who can’t fight back. > [@Magiver](#): > > You are clueless about the Catholic Church. Clueless. My cluelessness or lack thereof is irrelevant, since Catholicism isn’t the point of the thread. Hitting children is. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/35 "2011-03-30T19:19:17Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t think race is relevant to parenting. If beating your children is bad, then it’s bad. It may be relevant if it’s an outreach program. Traditionally black communities are Protestant. If this parish has a high percentage of black children in the school they may not be Catholic but part of a program to improve the educational standards in the community. The parents want the discipline the school traditionally provided. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/36 "2011-03-30T19:23:44Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > She was a bully who hit a child because she knew he wouldn’t hit back. That’s the _real_ lesson she was teaching the children she struck. Brutalize those who can’t fight back. There is nothing stopping a child from striking a teacher. She was a little bitty thing and I could have flattened her easily. She did the right thing and to this day I’m thankful she did. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > My cluelessness or lack thereof is irrelevant, since Catholicism isn’t the point of the thread. Hitting children is. It’s about a Catholic school. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/37 "2011-03-30T19:28:10Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It may be relevant if it’s an outreach program. **New Deal Democrat** ’s theory was that white people don’t have a clue and only black parents understand how to raise black children. I recognize there are cultural issues and things like that here, but let’s not give support to nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Khristy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@Khristy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khristy)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/38 "2011-03-30T19:28:36Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Black parents probably have a better idea of what their children need than do white liberals. Yea, they need to be taught that when someone doesn’t do as they are told, it’s time to knock them upside the head. Lessons learned as a child carry over to adulthood very often. Just ask Chris Brown, he’ll tell you ya need to keep your pimp hand strong in case your bitch steps outta line. ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/39 "2011-03-30T19:40:46Z")
It’s looks like the OP has spiraled into a debate about the pro’s and con’s of corporal punishment. I’m kind of torn on the issue. OK, I’ll play with my experience in two scenarios. Case 1: Corporal punishment was legal in my junior high in Oklahoma City, at least in the early '70’s, and was referred to as “getting licks” or “getting paddled.” It consisted of the paddlee bending over and placing his (almost always a male) hands on his knees, and the paddler striking the paddlee on the butt with a wooden paddle, usually one to three times. In my experience, the pain was sharp but didn’t last more than a minute or two. I’ve been the recipient of a beating, and this wasn’t a beating. Maybe it’s how we’re defining the word. To me, a beating implies an intent to injure. Somebody whaling on you in a parking lot while you’re trying to curl into a fetal position is a beating. My Social Studies class consisted of the 7th grade football team. We were pretty rowdy, to say the least, and our coach was not someone to suffer foolishness. Paddling was administered frequently here, and was considered something of a right of passage. As far as I can tell, there was no physical or emotional harm, and, yes, I’d much prefer getting three licks to spending after school in detention for a day. My guess, this is something like **Shagnasty** was referring to. Case 2: I was a mental health worker at a state home for psychologically disturbed children, the worst of the worst cases. Not only was striking a child not allowed, you would be arrested for doing so, and for good reason. Most of the children (4 - 18 in age) were here because of the traumatic effects of physical and/or sexual abuse. We’re talking real beatings here. What this taught me was that no matter the provocation, there was always another option besides corporal punishment. The result of time-outs or flat out ignoring, for instance, were not as dramatic as spanking a child, and it often tool a long time to see any effect, but the end result was usually the same that paddling advocates strive for: Reinforce positive behavior, don’t reinforce negative behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/40 "2011-03-30T19:45:24Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Nobody does. A spanking is not a beating. I don’t know how you managed to “forget” to bring your paper home 3 times but you should have been doing lines on day 1. Are you doubting me? Is that what you mean by your little scare quotes? Do tell me what I learned from being paddled. On second thought, don’t. Beat your own kids if you want, but the teachers should not be allowed to. Anyway I am done with this argument. Arguing on the Internet never accomplishes anything. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515.md?page=3)